[WEC] Toyota LMP1 Discussion

[sssssssss]

Originally Posted by TF110

That's because Audi was still accelerating beyond the scoring line, Toyota and Porsche could take Radillion flat out while Audi lifted. That's because of their downforce level.

i think it's the other way around a bit, if i'm understanding your assertion correctly. i think audi wasn't the fastest through the speed trap, although they obviously had the highest real top speed, because the scoring line is too far down the straights for the current hybrids (especially for them this year at spa), so they were already decelerating there (just as in le mans the previous years, where most trap speeds are a whole lot lower than the real top speeds), not still accelerating and not have touched their top speed yet. they were braking extremely early before every corner this year, that's really the way they were always getting caught from behind. they were unefficient under braking, because they did it much too early compared to the toyotas behind them.

[TF110]

The Audi hit 329kmh fighting with the Toyota, who themselves hit 314kmh in the same instance but that's 20kmh and 2kmh off their reported top speeds respectively. So yeah, you're right. The scoring line is far down the straight. I think the Audi guys were braking much earlier but also coasting to meet the fuel-flow.

[kvenom]

Toyota have shown up with some different bodywork at the test. Side mirrors are now integrated into the fender ala Audi,

[TF110]

This picture shows the mirrors are still where they were

[sssssssss]

Originally Posted by TF110

The Audi hit 329kmh fighting with the Toyota, who themselves hit 314kmh in the same instance but that's 20kmh and 2kmh off their reported top speeds respectively. So yeah, you're right. The scoring line is far down the straight. I think the Audi guys were braking much earlier but also coasting to meet the fuel-flow.

exactly. however, the 314 km/h for the HD toyota is most probably a combo of hybrid boost and a whole lot of slipstream on the very tail of the audi, because i've watched their speedometer on the in-car camera and they always stopped at exactly 300 km/h on the kemmel, as well as on the back part of the circuit, when there was no car ahead of them. the audi did the same at around 312 km/h. but still, hitting 329 km/h with no slipstream, in the middle of the kemmel straight, not nearly at the end of it, seems quite amazing to me.

[Hiro]

I wonder audi used the LM gear ratio at spa?.. since they reached 329 at 5th...
Its amazing but didnt help with lap time that much.

[sssssssss]

i'm pretty sure they did. the same as last year. at spa though there's only one place or maybe two where they can do that so it doesn't help much with the lap time, but in le mans i think it might be a different situation. but the lap times were due to lack of grip, which is why they had to lift and coast extremely early, get caught from behind and lose a whole lot of time over the course of a full lap. hopefully they've solved that problem for le mans now, since we're not really talking details, but basic stuff, more or less. i don't think they afford to show up at le mans with the lack of grip and therefore pace that they had at spa.

[sssssssss]

coming back to toyota, maybe this is relevant for the tech-oriented members around here:
https://scontent.fotp3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...14&oe=57CD368B

[Hiro]

Ive heard that audi and porsche didnt bring michelin "hot plus" tyres (for 38 degrees or higher) in spa, which toyota used, because they did not expect such high track temperatures. I think toyota also didnt expect over 40 degree track temperatures but earlier decided to use hot plus maybe because they have confidence in managing to use these tyres in temperatures lower than 40.

[TF110]

Racecar engineering has an update on the Toyota's low drag kit. Sam Collins says they still have updates to bring before LM week.

[Japanese Samurai]

Toyota, Are you satisfied with the status of the loser?

WEC - World Endurance Championship.
Hybrid technology of Toyota was trained and improved by this race thoroughly.
However, Toyota is having a hard time now.
Last season was 3rd position following Porsche and Toyota.
And in this season, Toyota was defeat in the first round, and in the 2nd round, it has mechanical trouble, and retired.
Toyota which is an origin of a hybrid car can't be defeated by rivals any more.
Toyota can't make hybrid car owners beyond 9,000,000 disappointed.
Cross the wall! Grab the title!

[gustavobamba]

Not looking to good for Toyota right now!!!!

Porsche have a nice pace and Audi are very fast!!!!

They (TOYOTA) should bring up some pace or else they will stay behind.

[mike46and2]

I'm sure tire wear and reliability are toyotas focus. 1 lap pace isn't gonna win anything but pole.

[cokata]

Originally Posted by mike46and2

I'm sure tire wear and reliability are toyotas focus. 1 lap pace isn't gonna win anything but pole.

Long run pace wasn't looking too hot either.

[GT6]

We will see i still think the race will be all about reliability

[Artur]

Originally Posted by GT6

We will see i still think the race will be all about reliability

Yup and I think that's the only chance Toyota still have of winning it. On pace, I think they'll lag behind by a couple of seconds per lap.

[YorkshireLad]

The racecar engineering article is good, seems this car is constantly being changed from an aerodynamic point of view (Trailing edge sanded and filled). This test shows nothing.. Quali will show if this car has potential, race will show us if long run pace is key.

Also new parts still to come between now and LM week. Holiday head is now on


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TF110]

Remember Spa when no one gave them a chance? The race is expected to be a lot warmer than today's test. With a new package, you don't go balls out trying to light up the timing sheets. But that morning session with Kobayashi going purple in sector two for 3 out of 5 laps in succession showed a lot of potential. Here's their press release for today.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by TF110

Remember Spa when no one gave them a chance? The race is expected to be a lot warmer than today's test. With a new package, you don't go balls out trying to light up the timing sheets. But that morning session with Kobayashi going purple in sector two for 3 out of 5 laps in succession showed a lot of potential. Here's their press release for today.

The problem is, none of the teams went balls out trying to light up the time sheets. And Toyota was still slower.

Test day has always been telling. In 2014 when Toyota had the best car, they finished 1-2 during the test day. Even though no one was going balls out.

[TF110]

It doesn't work that way when you look deeper into the timing. If you read the pr piece, they weren't doing any runs on low fuel or new tires. And the pace today is misleading in terms of weather anyway. Everyone will improve. I think that's obvious, but Toyota aren't in their finalized spec while the other two are. Sam Collins explained it on RLM.

[Akrapovic]

Yeah the times mean nothing. It isn't like everybody shaved off the same amount of time. You can't really judge it like that.

[TF110]

I think it'll come down to who has the most room to improve. Audi and Porsche are with a race under their belts in these LM packages. So Toyota has some catching up to do there.

[Articus]

Understandable that Toyota fans are being optimistic. I best the same things were said after last years test day when they were off the pace then too (albeit by a much larger amount) But the last 4-5 years are test day history tend to disagree.

I can't find any data in the last 4 editions of Le Mans where the test day didn't reveal the race week pecking order in the LMP1 class. Like i said, in that 2014 year when Toyota had the dominant race car, they topped the test day 1-2 and ran away with the race until they hit issues. It goes to show, that you've got that much extra pace when you top the test day doing race day runs.

It's not like Toyota is sandbagging. How can they understand tire wear, fuel consumption, and improve setup, if the drivers aren't atleast running a mock race pace including the traffic.

The test day is telling of the P1 pecking order.

[TF110]

Not just "Toyota fans" who are optimistic. They've improved by nearly 3 seconds from last year's test day. Porsche and Audi are nearly the same level. No one suggested they were sandbagging. But looking at the times, they are not far behind the others on lap by lap basis. Are you looking at absolute fast laps as a gauge of where these guys are? People did the same at Spa and then Toyota drove past both Audi and Porsche. We have all this positive information from times and interviews, plus the Toyota guys aren't even running the latest updates to the car.

Last year they were nowhere close. This year they're less than 2 seconds off. We know they'll improve, they all will. The question is will Toyota find more pace with more knowledge of the car and the final spec aero package.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Articus

Understandable that Toyota fans are being optimistic. I best the same things were said after last years test day when they were off the pace then too (albeit by a much larger amount) But the last 4-5 years are test day history tend to disagree.

I can't find any data in the last 4 editions of Le Mans where the test day didn't reveal the race week pecking order in the LMP1 class. Like i said, in that 2014 year when Toyota had the dominant race car, they topped the test day 1-2 and ran away with the race until they hit issues. It goes to show, that you've got that much extra pace when you top the test day doing race day runs.

It's not like Toyota is sandbagging. How can they understand tire wear, fuel consumption, and improve setup, if the drivers aren't atleast running a mock race pace including the traffic.

The test day is telling of the P1 pecking order.

What you fail taking into account is that, compared to Porsche, Toyota has a brand new car with much more speed to be found yet.

As RCE outlined, not even the aerowork for race week seems to be fully in place yet. The car is simply a big work-in-progress state right now, as was expected considering that they majorly pulled the development of the new package forward to have it ready for the season.

People need to stop freaking out about practice times, after practice and qualy in Spa people were convinced that they would have an embarrassing performance. And what happened? They would have won the race in a dominant fashion if it hadn't been for the engine issues.

Honestly, I'm more worried about reliability than their speed because if Spa was any indication, this race will likely not be won by the outright fastest car.