LMP2 Manufacturers and Engine Suppliers

[Pandemonium]

Sucks for them anyway. Like someone said in Sportscar365 manufacturers should only be allowed in LMP1 and GT. Pretty sure the Aco doesn´t care in wich way the IMSA wants to destroy itself.

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Even if there was bodywork advantage it doesn't matter as IMSA/NASCAR takes these things for wind tunnel performance balancing tests as soon as someone makes modification. And since this is standard procedure for DP, it's ought to be for the inevitable LMP2 external bodywork

Anyway, Alpine & Caterham & Morgan & Ligier and other fake rebrand names P2 has today are not 'sexy', and they are not 'merican, so the series doen't want em. Can't fault them for that, but since the series is already running with policy where they primaly call the cars by their engine names ("that Nissan entry is really fast", "the Ford they have prepared is amazing", "look out for those Chevrolet powered prototypes" and "oh Mazda has hit problems") - it even says so in rulebook - so why not just do that instead of Sprint Cup bodywork and spec components. Call the cars by their engines but let the chassis' as they are. In full ACO LMP2 spec that is, maybe sped up but otherwise intact. And if it's Judd* inside or something "obscure" Billy Bob won't recognize then rebrand the engine, god knows that's going on behind the ACO fence as well.

* that one would be easy, as they are technically BMW =P

Decreasing the amounts of costs can be found elsewhere

At least the IMSA brands reflect different engines. Corvette DP's have Chevrolet V8 power while the Fords use an Ecoboost V6. Not like it's unheard of to rebrand a chassis to its engine (IndyCar). "Morgan" LMP2's are idiotic though. Call it what it is, a Pescarolo.

[Deleted]

They don't really want manufacturers. They want manufacturer branding. This mindset that makes them cousins to SRO, but for different and worse reasons.

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by Chiana

They don't really want manufacturers. They want manufacturer branding. This mindset that makes them cousins to SRO, but for different and worse reasons.

But manufacturers want to be there. At Daytona, Sebring, Petit. IMSA gets the brand, the manufacturers get their bragging rights. Basically Le Mans. I think it would be best to leave them separate but P's allowed to compete at Le Mans if they win the automatic invites. Variety is the spice of life and all that, and of course series identification.

[Koenigsegg]

I have no problem if Coyote designs (and builds) a P2 car with some input from GM designers and calls it a Chevrolet or Corvette with a GM engine in it. And Riley doing the same with Ford.

Still a 'proper' P2 car with manufacturer branding and engine.

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by Koenigsegg

I have no problem if Coyote designs (and builds) a P2 car with some input from GM designers and calls it a Chevrolet or Corvette with a GM engine in it. And Riley doing the same with Ford.

Still a 'proper' P2 car with manufacturer branding and engine.

exactly, thank you.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by Koenigsegg

And Riley doing the same with Ford.

I don't think Chip Ganassi Racing would be going to Le Mans with a DP when they're rumored to race in the Ford GT program.

[Koenigsegg]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

I don't think Chip Ganassi Racing would be going to Le Mans with a DP when they're rumored to race in the Ford GT program.

I think you're missing the point here. We were talking about P2's, not DP's. And mentioned Riley and Ford in general, not a team that's currently racing with Ford engines.

I just stated that I wouldn't mind a Riley, Coyote or even Dallara designing and building a P2 car and naming the car Chevrolet/Corvette or Ford.

[MagVanisher]

I don't mind it either, but I want a Corvette or Ford GT (which is impossible) P2 car to have extreme bodywork instead of a 100% carbon copy of the original!

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

I don't mind it either, but I want a Corvette or Ford GT (which is impossible) P2 car to have extreme bodywork instead of a 100% carbon copy of the original!

I see no problem with factories pairing up with P2 manufacturers to build prototypes that fit their racing objectives as long as they keep them in the cost windows and ensure that privateers all have equal access to machinery. This is what Mazda has done with Multimatic/Lola and HPD did with Wirth. Are people opposed to this? I actually kind of hope that it shakes out that way at the end of the day. GM continuing a partnership with Coyote and Ford with Riley does seem to make a lot of sense on paper.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

That'd be great to have a P2 with a Chevrolet engine! Won't happen obviously, but why wouldn't you want that?

.......

the sooner it happens the better, the GM LS engine will make a great P2 engine, lots of capacity, low revs for good fuel economy, lots and lots of torque, with adequate power......will be very reliable as a result......unlike.....

Was anyone surprised to see the Kron-Judd blow its motor at Daytona......I wasnt......I think they made a great deascision on going for the Ligier chassis, but a terrible one going for the Judd motor, especially when the HPD and DP motors have so much more torque....... because of this in my opinion the Judd motor just cannot compete in terms of acelleration with the DP's and HPD......I think its only a matter of time before Kron change their engine for a Nissan 4.5 Litre item........dont delay and do it quickly I'd say.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by knighty

.......

the sooner it happens the better, the GM LS engine will make a great P2 engine, lots of capacity, low revs for good fuel economy, lots and lots of torque, with adequate power......will be very reliable as a result......unlike.....

Was anyone surprised to see the Kron-Judd blow its motor at Daytona......I wasnt......I think they made a great deascision on going for the Ligier chassis, but a terrible one going for the Judd motor, especially when the HPD and DP motors have so much more torque....... because of this in my opinion the Judd motor just cannot compete in terms of acelleration with the DP's and HPD......I think its only a matter of time before Kron change their engine for a Nissan 4.5 Litre item........dont delay and do it quickly I'd say.

Krohn gave some reason for the judd over the nissan, and I think it was based on they thought the nissan was at the end of its development cycle. Of course this makes no sense since these engines are not allowed development in p2.

[Koenigsegg]

Originally Posted by joeb

Krohn gave some reason for the judd over the nissan, and I think it was based on they thought the nissan was at the end of its development cycle. Of course this makes no sense since these engines are not allowed development in p2.

Technical stuff is still allowed, right? Engine development isn't allowed in F1, but Renault still found more power, torque and reliability over the year.

And perhaps the Judd engine wasn't build to handle the increased power for TUSC.

[Pandemonium]

Nah Lmp2´s in TUSC are slower. I know it has to do mainly with the tires. It is just engine failure. It happens from time to time. Bad luck

[TzeiTzei]

Originally Posted by Pandemonium

Nah Lmp2´s in TUSC are slower. I know it has to do mainly with the tires. It is just engine failure. It happens from time to time. Bad luck

P2s have more power in TUSC than in WEC.

[knighty]

Rest assured all the LMP2 engine suppliers are always developing and pushing the envelope, within the regs laid out.......I am sure Kron will have many more engine failures this season...... the Judd-BMW unit is over stressed and revs too high for LMP2 endurance racing......Judd took a 4.0 Litre standard BMW engine and for some reason......I suspect low friction, with lower rod to bore angles....... down sized it to 3.6 litre and increased the revs to 10,000rpm.......really I think they went the wrong direction when you consider what Nissan did and how much success they have had with their 4.5 Litre lower revving LMP2 engine........the facts speak for themselves, Judd went the wrong direction.......Kron made a bad descision

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

P2s have more power in TUSC than in WEC.

Slower = longer lap times, not top speed. The crap tires keep TUSC P2s from running the same lap times as an ACO P2 would.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by knighty

.......

the sooner it happens the better, the GM LS engine will make a great P2 engine, lots of capacity, low revs for good fuel economy, lots and lots of torque, with adequate power......will be very reliable as a result......unlike.....

Was anyone surprised to see the Kron-Judd blow its motor at Daytona......I wasnt......I think they made a great deascision on going for the Ligier chassis, but a terrible one going for the Judd motor, especially when the HPD and DP motors have so much more torque....... because of this in my opinion the Judd motor just cannot compete in terms of acelleration with the DP's and HPD......I think its only a matter of time before Kron change their engine for a Nissan 4.5 Litre item........dont delay and do it quickly I'd say.

I agree that the sooner an LS engine in a P-2 happens the better.







L.P.

[Koenigsegg]

Originally Posted by knighty

Rest assured all the LMP2 engine suppliers are always developing and pushing the envelope, within the regs laid out.......I am sure Kron will have many more engine failures this season...... the Judd-BMW unit is over stressed and revs too high for LMP2 endurance racing......Judd took a 4.0 Litre standard BMW engine and for some reason......I suspect low friction, with lower rod to bore angles....... down sized it to 3.6 litre and increased the revs to 10,000rpm.......really I think they went the wrong direction when you consider what Nissan did and how much success they have had with their 4.5 Litre lower revving LMP2 engine........the facts speak for themselves, Judd went the wrong direction.......Kron made a bad descision

I do remember Judd engined P2's usually having the top speed advantage over Nissan engined P2's.

[Deleted]

^

Maximum LMP2 straight line speed at LM

2014 (event)
Judd-BMW 309,1 km/h
Nissan 309,1 km/h
HPD 307,3 km/h

2013 (event)
Judd-BMW 307,3 km/h
Nissan 307,3 km/h
HPD 298,8 km/h

2012 (event)
Nissan 320,4 km/h (wtf)
Judd-BMW 308,6 km/h
HPD 303,5 km/h

2011 (event)
HPD 306,8 km/h
Judd-BMW 305,1 km/h
Nissan 302,5 km/h

2010 (race)
HPD 313,x km/h
Judd-BMW 308,x km/h
Zytek 304,x km/h

[Koenigsegg]

2012 Nissan top speed was the DeltaWing, wasn't it?

And I noticed that in 2014 the Oreca chassis was the quicker chassis based on top speed.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Koenigsegg

2012 Nissan top speed was the DeltaWing, wasn't it?

No, Murphy, which is strange as it was 11,4km/h faster than the second fastest P2 at 308,6 AND with the slowened down cost cap production engine that figure is way up.

DW was just 309,5

This was the first time I noticed it, the last time I did graph of this for the LM-section I must've missed it. Maybe it's a typo, but it appears in another ACO sheet as well so maybe not.

[TF110]

Sard will be in lmp2, team called "Team SARD Morand" with an as yet to be named car. Dome planning to test in Aragon from the 31st, and at least 5 teams are set for wec lmp2.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Chiana

No, Murphy, which is strange as it was 11,4km/h faster than the second fastest P2 at 308,6 AND with the slowened down cost cap production engine that figure is way up.

DW was just 309,5

This was the first time I noticed it, the last time I did graph of this for the LM-section I must've missed it. Maybe it's a typo, but it appears in another ACO sheet as well so maybe not.

Possibly an almighty draft? Maybe passed out of TR by two LMP1 cars who then ran side-by-side down the Mulsanne and punched a gigantic hole in the air for the P2 car following them?

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TF110

Sard will be in lmp2, team called "Team SARD Morand" with an as yet to be named car. Dome planning to test in Aragon from the 31st, and at least 5 teams are set for wec lmp2.

Team SARD Morand will be using upgraded Morgan LMP2 cars, most likely powered by rebranded Judd engines.