Brabham BT21

[Chris Townsend]

Originally Posted by olliecrosthwaite

I,m looking for any information on BT21-6. When my farther bought it, it was beleved to be the ex Bev Bond car.

Sorry but not the Bond car, chassis number on that was observed in 1968 with a different number. [That car was one of two used by Harry Stiller in 1967 - the other being chassis 12]
Who is your dad, when did he buy the car, and who from?
This may help us sort history

Chris

[olliecrosthwaite]

My farther is Dick Crosthwaite.
He bought the car from Peter Bloore in about 1975
The car is definitely bt21-6 I have just been looking at the chassis plate.
The car was not very old when we bought it. So would be surprised if the history was mixed up back then.
From my little research Bev Bond drove a few different BT21s

[KevinT]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Sorry but not the Bond car, chassis number on that was observed in 1968 with a different number. [That car was one of two used by Harry Stiller in 1967 - the other being chassis 12]
Who is your dad, when did he buy the car, and who from?
This may help us sort history

Chris

Chris what was the chassis number of the other Harry Stiller car? I have BT21-12 and have a few good pics of both cars that I am happy to share with the other car owner if they want them.

Kevin

[KevinT]

BT21A? id help please (3,5,or 6? or none of the above). Details provided are:
Chassis AM221 (appears correct for 21a) - no original chassis plate
Originally to USA (unknown) as twin cam/FB
Imported (rolling chassis) to UK by Bob Howlings
1980? converted to F3 driven by Mike Vickery.
Back to twin cam for Scott Coleman.
Sold (rolling chassis) to France to F3 for Banakela.
Back to the UK by Len Selby who sold it to Mallet
2006 to Keith Norman restored as a twin cam.

Kevin

[Bob Lima]

Looking for documentation and or pictures for Brabham BT21A-4 Chassis #AM228 also
has the letters GR stamped on the same rear plate as the chassis #.
With the help of Kurt Engelman, Dave Irwin, Fred Opert and Dr. Lou Sell it appears the
ownership history is complete.
Origianal owner-Dr Lou Sell
2nd- Dick Smothers
3rd- John Sorbello
4th- John Kauffman
5th- Joe Maria
Current- Bob Lima
Any information and or photos to further verify the cars history would be appreciated.

Thanks
Bob Lima

[mike faloon]

Does anyone out there know the current location of BT21-29; Mike Walker was asking at Cdawell Park last weekend. He originally bought the car from Frank Williams in early 1967.

[Chris Townsend]

Originally Posted by mike faloon

Does anyone out there know the current location of BT21-29; Mike Walker was asking at Cdawell Park last weekend. He originally bought the car from Frank Williams in early 1967.

At the moment I lose track of this one in hillclimbs in 1970...

Chris

[edholly]

After some years trying to find Noel McGlothlin I found a thread where he had shared cars with Robert Rentzell of Chatanooga in the 1960s. (Noel took delivery of BT21C-14 which is a strong possiblity of being my car)

A white pages search found Robert and I rang & spoke with him for quite a while. Yes Noel did own a BT21C and Robert drove it a couple of times when they were testing together.

He remembers it was scarlet in colour, not red but deeper, Robert said a definite scarlet. He wasn't sure what happened to it after Noel finished with it, and is going to ask the family for me. Noel passed away in 1980.

If I can find out what happened to it after Noel, then maybe I can link it to where I am at now going back ...

Here is a photo of AM288 at Mallala, South Australia at Easter in the last race where it managed a 1st place.

Ed

[dirksx1]

I am trying once again to build a history of a BT21 AM 240. I purchased it in 1988-89 in California where is was used as a cart racer, it has basically been sitting in my garage since then. Frame has been restored, and am in process of sorting our what I will need to out it back together.

I was told it could be a late 1967-68 BT 21B or C. I have also confirmed that Peter Boyd once owned it but he does not recall any details of prior ownership.

Can anyone provide any details of prior history (before 1987-88) of this BT21. Any assistance provided would be greatly appreciated.

Dirksx1
Vancouver Canada

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by dirksx1

I am trying once again to build a history of a BT21 AM 240. I purchased it in 1988-89 in California where is was used as a cart racer, it has basically been sitting in my garage since then. Frame has been restored, and am in process of sorting our what I will need to out it back together.

I was told it could be a late 1967-68 BT 21B or C. I have also confirmed that Peter Boyd once owned it but he does not recall any details of prior ownership.

Can anyone provide any details of prior history (before 1987-88) of this BT21. Any assistance provided would be greatly appreciated.

Dirksx1
Vancouver Canada

Was Peter Boyd able to tell you when he had it or roughly where in the country he bought it or whether it had SCCA log books with it when he had it or whether he bought it from an Autoweek advert? Do you know the owners in between Boyd and you? Any clue might help as we might have "orphan" data in our records that might tie up with something. If we know where and when an advert appeared, that might give us another owner.

[dirksx1]

I will get in contact with Peter Boyd and see whether he can provide any additional details. Unfortunately I don't know the previous owner and was not provided with any type of log book. Best I recall it was used for oval racing in California and had an aluminium block V8 installed..

Engine is long gone but have secured a replacement Lotus Ford Twin Cam as I am quite sure it was orginally a used for Formuiula B - either a BT21A or C. I have the original Hewland transmission and all of the other bits and pieces.

I will let you know what Peter says.

[f3guide]

some information about BT21B/22

1968: new to Jürg Dubler
1969: supposed to be owned by Joakim Bonnier, but that´s not sure
1970: Heinz Hartmann
1971: Felix Martin

later sold to Heinz Schreiber and now in restored condition owned by Klaus Rosshuber

[T65]

Has anyone information on a Tucker F4 1.3 litre which was based on a converted BT21B. Believed raced by Susan T P Jamison?

[owrforever]

Dick Smothers in chassis BT21A-4 at Road America, 1968.

[dirksx1]

Does anyone remember selling a BT21 to Peter V Boyd sometime in the middle to late 80's.
It was or became shortly thereafter became an oval cart racer with small block V8 which I purchased in 1989 from California. Am trying to establish its history. Given the transaxle with it is an H5 model, I am now assuming it was a 1967 BT21A. Am trying to work back so I can establish the original Brabham chassis number by using the transaxle and frame numbers. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Dirk S.

[dirksx1]

Steve Wilkinson and Allen brown are trying to help determine the chassis numbers of my car frame # AM 240. I read in previous message some years back that there are some log books in existence that cross reference the official Brabham chassis number with the engine and transaxle number. These records apparently did not however track the frame number. Allen or Steve are trying to secure access and do a cross reference. If anyone else has access to the original log books or copies of them, please respond so that I can supply my transaxle # and hopefully establish the chassis number of the car. I can now definitively confirm that Peter V Boyd owned the car before I did and had registered it in 1989 with the California Brabham register managed by John Hafkenschiel.

Any help in getting this car history sorted out would be gratefully accepted.

[tolissoff]

Hi guys.
Has anyone got information on this F3 chassis BT21?
I think it is AM206 but could be AM208. Pretty hard to read.

Have had it described as a Cassegrain car for 67 and Frank Williams for 68, but elsewhere on this thread, chassis plate #35 is Cassegrain and #36 is down as a Frank Williams car.

It moved into Canada/USA 69 ?
Appreciate any clarifications that you may be able to provide
Cheers
TonyO

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by tolissoff

Hi guys.
Has anyone got information on this F3 chassis BT21?
I think it is AM206 but could be AM208. Pretty hard to read.

Have had it described as a Cassegrain car for 67 and Frank Williams for 68, but elsewhere on this thread, chassis plate #35 is Cassegrain and #36 is down as a Frank Williams car.

It moved into Canada/USA 69 ?
Appreciate any clarifications that you may be able to provide
Cheers
TonyO

Welcome Tony

Both those cars went to Canada and BT21/35 at least can be traced a good way into the 1970s. I won't comment on the AM number online but if you want to contact me at allen@oldracingcars.com, I'll be able to say more.

Can you tell us the recent history of the car? Where is it now? How far can you trace it back?

[tolissoff]

Is there a reference source for the original chassis frame numbers of Brabhams?

[rkshanahan]

Can anyone help with the chassis number of the BT21 that belonged to Rex Twaits or Gary Jarlsen in the US back in the 1980's?

Regards,

Rob

[mikestow]

Looking through this thread on the BT21,I cant find out what ever happened to my Ex Ian Walker Team Celerity Brabham BT21 which I bought off Mike Cornwall ,through MRE,in early 1969.As per this thread it was Chassis no46,which replaced #19 which was tragically written off.I was buying a new BT28,which Graham Coaker was arranging with MRD for me to have cheaper partly unfinished,as he could get it stove enamelled plus get all the suspension cadplated etc.I therefore let him drive this car at the last Silverstone GP Circuit F3 Race that year,which was his last F3 race,having sold his own BT21B to Bert Hawthorne.He had become Production Director at MARCH,so had effectively retired from racing himself.Having received my BT28 around September 69,the BT21 was sold to MRE,after which I lost contact with it??It was modded to BT21B spec top radius arm position,and had special drive shafts that had spiggot bullets that fitted inside the doughnuts to locate the hardy spicer centrally and made for a much quicker in and out of the gearbox/doughnut couplings.It may have gone abroad ,but records of this time as non existant now from Jim Gleave,who ended up running MRE.Any ideas???

[Ben Dillon]

Hi all, I'm writing a piece for an Australian classic car magazine on two BT-21 and would love to know if anyone has info regarding these two cars?

AM245 and AM283 are the chassis numbers and I'm just trying to establish race and owner histories for both. The current owner has supplied me with some information which I want to verify and add to if possible through those with specific knowledge on this forum and elsewhere.

I know that Fred Opert took 245 to the US, possibly in 1965(?) but after that it's a ghost until the current owner bought it as a stripped down project.

Particularly interested to know the racing story of 283 as it was used by Bob Illich in Europe pre-1968 when he bought it back to Australia where it has been since.

Any info would be fantastic and I'm enjoying the wealth and depth of commentary reading through this and other posts.
Cheers

[anowoc]

Hello, New to this site. I have a BT21 Formula B that I think that was raced in New York when new. The serial number on the dash is missing. It does have a good AM stamp on the frame. Dumb question. Is there a way to match a chassis number to the Arch Motors number?

[Andrew Fellowes]

Short answer no, there are no cross reference records.
However if you would care to share the AM number either here on the forum or if you'd prefer by PM to me then there is a small chance that it could be narrowed down a bit. Are there any numbers on the roll hoop? Furthermore do you have any idea who the owners have been as that might help too.

[275 GTB-4]

What Andrew said...also, you could contact:

http://www.oldracingcars.com/fb/