[Official] Round One :Gulf Air Bahrain Grand Prix, Sakhir

[ECW Dan Selby]

It's really beginning to wind me up how everyone's blaming refuelling.......

Why does that have anything to do with the fact cars can't follow within a second of eachother?!

Selby

[AussieTimmeh]

Refueling isn't, or shouldn't, be blamed for the whole problem. But it does seem to contribute in this way:

No refueling = no need to make pitstops other than the one to change to the other compound tire = need to preserve the tires you do have for as long as possible = no following too close to the car in front as the tires start overheating in the hot air of the proceeding car = no chance of passing.

There are definitely other issues as to why cars get to that one second margin and can't go any further though, but there's even less reason to risk it now than before. Drivers are asking more of the tires now than ever. Previously a one stop race was a nothing-to-lose tactic, in Bahrain it was the norm.

[jab]

Originally Posted by AussieTimmeh

Refueling isn't, or shouldn't, be blamed for the whole problem. But it does seem to contribute in this way:

No refueling = no need to make pitstops other than the one to change to the other compound tire = need to preserve the tires you do have for as long as possible = no following too close to the car in front as the tires start overheating in the hot air of the proceeding car = no chance of passing.

There are definitely other issues as to why cars get to that one second margin and can't go any further though, but there's even less reason to risk it now than before. Drivers are asking more of the tires now than ever. Previously a one stop race was a nothing-to-lose tactic, in Bahrain it was the norm.

That pretty much sums the whole thing up

So in hot races, we're screwed

[tblincoe]

I'll get a lap-time analysis up for you guys soon - but I think you'll be fairly-well shocked by the way the times trended over the course of the afternoon. To summarize, times absolutely flat-lined across the board less than half-way through the race.

It really shows how conservative everyone was with their tires given the comparison lap times posted during qualifying. Looking at total pit-times, someone could have pushed much harder after their first stop, and pitted a second time to blitz the field. It was certainly possible and I'm sure that if its not attempted in Australia due to the nature of the circuit, someone is going to go for it in Malaysia (especially if one qualifies outside of the top 10 and can fit new tires).

Don't knee-jerk from one race is my feeling at the moment - I'll get the times and such up here in just a bit.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Yeah I think we just also need to consider that this isn't a great circuit for action, plus drivers were slightly more weery than we'd perhaps anticipated.

I would have thought someone, or two, would put the bit between their teeth next race and try giving the tyres some whilst everyone else is conserving.

One of the new teams for example? Would it not be worth Lotus trying this (seen as their car can make the finish)?

Selby

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

Yeah I think we just also need to consider that this isn't a great circuit for action, plus drivers were slightly more weery than we'd perhaps anticipated.

I would have thought someone, or two, would put the bit between their teeth next race and try giving the tyres some whilst everyone else is conserving.

One of the new teams for example? Would it not be worth Lotus trying this (seen as their car can make the finish)?

Selby

It would've happened to a certain extent if Sutil and Kubica hadn't collided. Jenson point-blank admitted he was far too conservative during the race.

I'll seriously be perplexed if at least one of the Big4, not to mention at least a couple of drivers from spots 11-15, don't split strategies and go for one more stop than the pack in Malaysia; especially if its hot and humid.

You do the math: Everyone was running on qualifying-levels of fuel for the last five laps of the race and were 6 seconds off qualifying pace. Then figure in that the pit stop procedure accounted for 22-28 seconds of lost time over two laps.

Sure overtaking is "difficult", but you can't tell me that someone running laps AT LEAST 4 seconds quicker than everyone else won't get by the car ahead.

[Tim the Grey]

I wonder? The tyres o/heat when following the car in front.
How long, if ever, till they recover? 1 lap, 2 corners, never???
THAT could make the difference.

Tow up, blitz by, then hang onto a bronco for a couple of minutes till it calms down, and carry on, kind of thing. That could make a soft all the way option work?

[jab]

But the hards were overheating as well. It wasn't just the softs. That's the problem

The FIA have 3 options, essentially:

- more durable tyres - so that they won't go off, which will allow the drivers to be more aggressive and overtake

- less durable tyres - for more strategic variety

- mandatory 2-stopper - the drivers don't have to protect the tyres, again allowing them to be more aggressive and overtake

I'd take anything right now that is going to help overtaking rather than effectively putting the emphasis back on strategy. Besides Bridgestone are too conservative, so #2 is out of the question. So the obvious answer is (after waiting until we're finished in Australia/Asia to see if it gets any better) mandatory 2 stops until the end of the season, and then working with the new tyre supplier (if there is one) in 2010 to provide more durable tyres. Ultimately what you would want is a tyre war but that's not going to happen right now

[ECW Dan Selby]

I'd hate a tyre war lol It'd just be another problem to complain about (yes, on top of the fact they can't overtake!).

And tblincoe, you'd like to think even a modern day F1 car going 4 seconds a lap quicker should be able to slot through. I mean afterall, I think Alonso/Massa must have been atleast 4 seconds or so a lap quicker over Vettel when he had the engine problem?

Selby

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

I'd hate a tyre war lol It'd just be another problem to complain about (yes, on top of the fact they can't overtake!).

And tblincoe, you'd like to think even a modern day F1 car going 4 seconds a lap quicker should be able to slot through. I mean afterall, I think Alonso/Massa must have been atleast 4 seconds or so a lap quicker over Vettel when he had the engine problem?

Selby

Funny enough, they were ranging from 2-4 seconds per lap faster during that segment...

[jab]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

I'd hate a tyre war lol It'd just be another problem to complain about (yes, on top of the fact they can't overtake!).

Whilst I complained about it at the time and wanted a level-playing field, the problem is a level-playing field isn't good for racing. Yes, we'd have a situation where Driver X will complain about being disadvantaged by his tyre manufacturer not producing decent tyres for this track, but that's what we need - it's interesting. Bridgestone must've gained more publicity through their tyre wars with Goodyear and later Michelin than they have with these stupid tyre rules we've seen since that were probably only introduced to keep them in the spotlight

[Last2LiftOff]

Seeing Alonza up front in a competitive car again, was a real treat, and a Ferrrari to boot. Hard lines Vettel but I think they saw that coming - RBR must be running two different exhaust set-ups back there.

You'd need another tire manufacturer.

[AussieTimmeh]

Originally Posted by Last2LiftOff

Hard lines Vettel but I think they saw that coming - RBR must be running two different exhaust set-ups back there.

Umm, it was a faulty spark plug, if that has any impact on your post...

[Last2LiftOff]

Oh there ya go, I did miss it, thanks for that Aus. A really tough weekend for him then, he seemed to be having a problem a day.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by tblincoe

Funny enough, they were ranging from 2-4 seconds per lap faster during that segment...

There we have it then - it'd work

Selby

[tblincoe]

If I remember correctly [target]-1.300 was the generally accepted bogey-time for overtaking possibility on conducive tracks in 2009. Anything 1.3s+ better than the guy in front would usually get a "lets see if we can get around him" communication from the pits...

[Ted bennett]

Maybe Bernie's shortcut idea wasn't so bad after all.

[Yannick]

Originally Posted by jab

But the hards were overheating as well. It wasn't just the softs. That's the problem

The FIA have 3 options, essentially:

- more durable tyres - so that they won't go off, which will allow the drivers to be more aggressive and overtake

This option #1 would be it, I guess. But it might make the cars too fast too quickly, so they might not want to do it for safety reasons.
And despite that, as Bridgestone are pulling out, why should they develop another new tire?

[Born Racer]

I don't understand the criticism of those who criticised the racing.

It's fine to say that people should know what to expect, but there is such frustration with continual changes, neglecting the main one that is screamingly obvious even to non-engineers- MASSIVE aerodynamic cuts.

[bdwoody]

make the front and rear wings twice the size so sponsors are happy .........but make them from cardboard !!!!

[DanShenise]

Nah, make em outta wood. Should make the night races more interesting, kinda like a Hawaiian flame dancers, or a horizontal space shuttle launch.

[JagtechOhio]

Mario, Trenton NJ, 1966 (?). One sheet of plywood, and the rest is history.

[old man]

We watched the race "en famille", it being Mothers Day (!), and my son and I were discussing the interesting though processional race when Mum said "who makes up all these d*** silly rules anyway? Why can't they just let them race properly?" .........Bless, we did larf.......

[Flyin Ryan]

Don't really understand why people are harping on a tire war. It's not going to happen.

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/...he-last-laugh/

Michelin left Formula One in high dudgeon at the end of 2006, believing that it had been harshly treated by the FIA over the events at Indianapolis in 2005. There was no love lost between the late Edouard Michelin (who drowned in a fishing accident in May 2006) and the then FIA President Max Mosley. Indeed there are some ho believe that Michelin had funded the Intercontinental Rally Challenge simply as a way to undermine the FIA’s World Rally Championship. But with Mosley in retirement and France’s Jean Todt now ensconced in the Place de la Concorde the political scenery has changed considerably. Bridgestone wants out of Formula 1 at the end of next year and Goodyear is not really keen on paying what is being asked, so the field is clear for Michelin to do a deal with the federation.

Who's going to compete against Michelin and would have the resources to do so, Kumho?

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by tblincoe

If I remember correctly [target]-1.300 was the generally accepted bogey-time for overtaking possibility on conducive tracks in 2009. Anything 1.3s+ better than the guy in front would usually get a "lets see if we can get around him" communication from the pits...

How much faster was Rosberg than Vettel until Nico caught up to him?