IMSA DPi Discussion

[Rcz]

Or they could just keep GTE the way it is, everyone seems happy with the rules right now.

If they went all GT with GTLM as the fastest class we could see a lot of GT3 cars get converted into GTLM. Audi, Nissan, Bentley and others could start up factory team. The lure of winning Daytona and Sebring overall with existing chassis is too great to pass.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Rcz

Or they could just keep GTE the way it is, everyone seems happy with the rules right now.

Where did I say anything about GTE?

If they went all GT with GTLM as the fastest class we could see a lot of GT3 cars get converted into GTLM. Audi, Nissan, Bentley and others could start up factory team. The lure of winning Daytona and Sebring overall with existing chassis is too great to pass.

Actually, the entire point that's got so many people liking the idea is that it WOULD still be using existing chassis. The idea that came to many a mind when it was rumored that Super GT wanted a "souped up GT3" for it's new GT500 was that you would take a GT3 car, put in new suspension with a wider track, the bodywork/aero adjustments the suspension necessitated, and squeeze another 100 or so horsepower from the engine(MOST GT3 engines could handle around that much).

The result would be a car that could be run in the new class by simply converting an existing car, which could be converted back at any time should the team decide to exit the class or sell the chassis to someone who'd rather be in normal GT3.

That's the THEORY, at least. Like I said, nobody(to my knowledge) is actively developing the idea - it's at this time just talk between people who enjoy considering how to make such things work, and a lot of people have a lot of different ideas. Some prefer the initial "do they mean this?" idea(the one outlined above), while don't like widening the chassis further(as some GT3 cars are already pushing old-GT500 levels of extra width) and that the cars would only need wider tires with the extra power, for instance. Some still think just an extra 100 or so horsepower would do the trick.

It doesn't take a genius to see why engineers in particular like the idea. If nothing else, it makes for a great theoretical idea to stimulate the creative side of their brain.

[Bob Baldwin]

Building a higher tiered class using the GT3 base model ? I guess I am a Genericoholic . in an industry that is already TOOO Fragmented ! .

[HORNDAWG]

DPi....












L.P.

[Maelochs]

Something I just noticed int he Pruett interview of Atherton in Racer:

"ATHERTON: The vision we've had from the start of where the DPi lines up in the greater landscape of motorsport is as a top-tier manufacturer-centric category, not unlike our GTLM class is figured in the GT side of the house. GTLM is factory backed teams, all professional. Really, there's no official provision for a privateer element. It doesn't mean it is not possible, but there is no mandate and the result of that positioning has been – and this I believe is not arguably but factually – it's resulted in the deepest end of the pool, the tallest cotton of professional GT racing in the world. It's something we are quite proud of and the quality of the racing there is second to none."

So he is saying that since there are several manufacturers willing to promote their GT machines, their Road Cars, in racing, therefore those same manufacturers (or equal numbers) will be equally interested in fielding teams of spec racers with paste-on grille decals?

On top of that ... Risi? Falken? Has he forgotten the GTLM is Not all manufacturer teams? And GTE has even more private teams.

What he doesn't seem to realize he is saying is that he is willing to limit the top class to half-a-dozen cars or fewer, and doesn't care in the slightest. Chevy is likely to stay in, because they keep winning races and titles. Mazda has nowhere else to go. Ford is already gone. Starworks has reportedly bought a presumably non-competitive P2. That's it ... and possible all it will ever be.

I have met Mr. Atherton a couple times, for a couple minutes, and as a person, he seems like a really decent guy. I do not dislike him as a human being. I also realize that he has been hired to manage failing racing series, and to tell the public that the ship is not sinking, it is the sea which is rising and everything is working perfectly.

I am not even sure how much of a hand he has in the decision-making process.

I am very sure I tend not to like the decisions.

[Rcz]

The ship already sank, and the survivors are on some uncharted island that nobody knows about.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

DPi....

Can you at least give credit to the guy who drew it up as a fan rendering? Sheesh.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

On top of that ... Risi? Falken? Has he forgotten the GTLM is Not all manufacturer teams? And GTE has even more private teams.

Falken is dead and buried, and Risi is as close to factory supported as it comes.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Falken is dead and buried, and Risi is as close to factory supported as it comes.

Yeah, I kind of know that Falken is gone. Risi is sort of factory supported ... which is why they dropped out for a while? I'd say AF Corse is more of the factory team nowadays.

In any case the issue is that there is no mandate for GTLM teams to provide other teams with cars, but there is a greater incentive to enter and compete with a road car ... the promo value is greater for a road car manufacturer.

If Chevy decides only to supply one team, Mazda has its pair, and Starworks its one P2 ... with an engine which might be down on horsepower ...

It's great that Mr. A assumes lots of other factories will commit ... but so far, how many have? And if manufacturers see an weak feel, and thus weak ratings, and the usual bad BoP which marginalizes Starworks they way it marginalized P2 teams in prior years ....

Maybe it will workl, maybe not, but it sort of worries me ...

Basically Scott A. is saying, since GTLM works, DPi will work too if we follow exactly the same format ... which doesn't follow at all. That's like saying "Swimming works so well in water, it must be the best way to get around on land."

But hey, if DPi stays weak, IMSA can always allow more PCs.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Yeah, I kind of know that Falken is gone. Risi is sort of factory supported ... which is why they dropped out for a while? I'd say AF Corse is more of the factory team nowadays.

Risi dropped off the planet for a bit because they destroyed two $700k+ cars in the course of two months, and then proceeded to keep racking up the bills in significant ways. Lets also not forget that the chassis that was written off at Daytona was also significantly damaged at Baltimore the year prior.

Either way.. they are the factory squad in the US.

[BrentJackson]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

As for what IMSA Could be: I am watching ELMS, which is a bunch of P2s, P3s, and GTEs ... and it rocks. Everything from the announcers to the on-track action ... just a great show. I keep thinking, "This is what IMSA could be."

Because that's gonna work so great next year, when you get a whole bunch of Gibson-powered Orecas and Ligiers, Oreca-powered Ligiers and ludicrously-expensive GTE cars in a race clearly designed for those teams who want something to do so between each year's 24 Hours of Le Mans. Yeah, IMSA should really emulate that....

People, I know a lot of the people here are in Europe and have a hard time with this, but IMSA IS NOT LIKE THE ELMS. It never has been, never will be, and even the ALMS realized pretty much right from the start that doing what they do will inevitably lead to its failure. The ALMS tried doing that after its end-of-WSC days, and what did it get them? Small fields and the privateers all eventually migrating over to the Daytona Prototypes, which no matter how much people here hate them DID make it possible for privateer teams to keep racing, which is why the class lasted as long as it did and evolved as it did.

The ELMS is a six-round series with no factory teams whatsoever, all using cars that are in many cases old today and next year will all be spec - and people are fooling themselves if the prototype categories of the ELMS in 2017 and the few years after won't be an Oreca and Onroak benefit. It's great for the little teams who want the ability to race at Le Mans, but what else is it good for? It's a series for amateur racers. A bloody good series for them, but nothing more, and IMSA can never be like it for that reason and a lot more.

Atherton's comments about leveling out the WEC P2 and DPi cars along with not shoving factories into selling cars to privateers is a god-awful mess waiting to happen. Does he want a field of spec cars? Because that's what he's gonna get this way, along with one or two factory efforts who will go absolutely ape having to race the spec cars right up to the point either IMSA tilts the field in their favor (thus screwing the privateer racers) or they bail out (costing IMSA millions in financial support). What is Scott waiting on, one of the makers to do a DPi equivalent of the Porsche 962? If he doesn't get that, he's gonna have a truly awful mess in the prototype categories, and all of that doesn't deal with the mess that is PC.

Seriously, if this is the future of prototypes, for the love of God go GT-only. This is such a load of crap its not even amusing any more.

[BrentJackson]

Originally Posted by Rcz

Geez, how melodramatic. We don't even know what these cars are going to look like and everybody is complaining.

You know, they could just get rid of prototypes and just be all GT. Suddenly with all this political crap going with this P class, going GT would probably make more financial sense.

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Create Super GT3/New!GT1/whatever you'd prefer to call it and IMSA would have a perfect alternative.

Or maybe they could use the Class One chassis, GT3-based engines and intelligent cost controls and BoP and use that for a top class, while keeping GTE and GT3 just as it is. Have a single maker of the CF safety cells, while allowing any who wishes to to make a chassis ends. The Class One effectively is a carbonfiber tub surrounded by a chassis which is very similar in construction to a Daytona Prototype, which most in IMSA are very familiar with.

You know, like how some of us who saw this crap coming a year ago have been saying would be a wise Plan B for when (and there's no if about it, it's WHEN) the ACO and IMSA end up at odds.

I must be honest, if it were me in IMSA's position, I'd not only be going away from the ACO and LMPs in general, I'd also be telling Oreca and Onroak to get as far away from my series as possible. They have all but used their inside connections to destroy their competition in a way that smacks of nepotism. If the ACO wants to do that sort of garbage they are free to, but IMSA shouldn't be dealing with their screwups.

[carbsmith]

Where is this myth that 2017 LMP2 cars are spec coming from? It's as competitive as LMP2 is right now, it's just limited to approved constructors. The spec engine is irrelevant because there is practically zero engine competition in LMP2 already. 19/22 actual ACO LMP2s racing this weekend used Nissan engines. The manufacturer limit is also barely relevant either, there was 1 Gibson and 2 BR01s among those 22 cars either (that's *gasp* four different constructors, by the way). Really you'll see more variety next year because I'm sure Dallaras will be more popular.

You can debate the ideological merits of the new rules, and I don't like them either, but in terms of the on track product they hurt nothing. The cars will be considerably faster, more spectacular, and less all ORECA 05s, which should make a series like ELMS better to watch.

I'm baffled you say ALMS failed trying to be like ELMS when you already explained how ALMS was nothing like ELMS and ELMS actually failed trying to be like ALMS twice. You imply Grand Am's amateur privateer racing saved things from ALMS' apparent mistakes yet ELMS' amateur privateer racing can't work in America. Just constant contradiction that makes no sense.


As far as the Atherton interview goes, his explanation of wanting DPi to be like GTLM is so utterly contradictory to the previously stated values of the series and the origin of the class I'm starting to be convinced it has no real purpose but allowing Jim France to win the Rolex 24 with an American stock block V8.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by BrentJackson

Or maybe they could use the Class One chassis, GT3-based engines and intelligent cost controls and BoP and use that for a top class, while keeping GTE and GT3 just as it is. Have a single maker of the CF safety cells, while allowing any who wishes to to make a chassis ends. The Class One effectively is a carbonfiber tub surrounded by a chassis which is very similar in construction to a Daytona Prototype, which most in IMSA are very familiar with.

You know, like how some of us who saw this crap coming a year ago have been saying would be a wise Plan B for when (and there's no if about it, it's WHEN) the ACO and IMSA end up at odds.

Not a terrible idea, and one many like as well, but the thing with Class One safety cells is that they're decidedly more expensive than the LMP2 chassis is expected to be - don't forget, they're designed to be the core of component of cars that are little more than front-engined-full-bodied Formula One cars. (andn if you want to allow rear-engine cars as well, there are problems to overcome with a Class One chassis, as Honda Japan can tell you about quite well)

The bigger issue with using Class One as a base is that top-tier sportscar racing is cyclical. Factories come, factories go. What happens when the next factory drought occurs? Class One, no matter how you slice it, is a factory-driven idea. It's not going to work well with those factories gone.

DPi, being based off of LMP safety cells, is not only a cheaper option, but it's using a base that has protection against it built into the concept; LMP2 is meant for privateers - it EXISTS to be able to thrive in the absence of factories.

That sort of protection would also exist in an upgraded GT3 class - since GT3 cars can be built by independent tuners the end of factory involvement is unlikely to kill the class, it will merely shift it's focus. So having a higher-tier class built off of converted GT3s makes for a top-tier class that will always have some sort of support base.

I must be honest, if it were me in IMSA's position, I'd not only be going away from the ACO and LMPs in general, I'd also be telling Oreca and Onroak to get as far away from my series as possible. They have all but used their inside connections to destroy their competition in a way that smacks of nepotism. If the ACO wants to do that sort of garbage they are free to, but IMSA shouldn't be dealing with their screwups.

Unfortunately(or fortunately depending on one's POV), as things stand right now, the LMP chassis provides the best base for IMSA to build a class off of. They're just...not doing it the way they REALLY should be.

In five years time, who knows? Maybe there'll be a "Super GT3" or some other superior basis for a the top IMSA class. For the time being however... I just wish IMSA would get their heads on straight about how to do the class.

For the record, however, Oreca and Onroak did NOT use their inside connections to ruin LMP2. It was Oreca alone doing that - Onroak was actually locked out of several meetings Oreca was part of regarding the creations of the 2017 P2 rules. Onroak has even been among the most vocal critics of the four-chassis limit.

[Maelochs]

I disagree with most of Brent Jackson's post, but it seems he and I share a fear ... that in the absence of a widely available Competitive customer car, DPi is going to be another two-tier class BoP'd to pick the winners ... which will drive away either the privateers or the factories.

But, having stated that ... time for me to move on. I keep thinking IMSA will get it right, but that is pretty much magical thinking ... the track record of the management crews that now run IMSA are pretty much devoid of success.

So ... I will get what enjoyment I can from whatever they put on track. Long Beach was a good race, Sebring and Daytona also. No idea what the future holds so I had best make the most of this season.

[TzeiTzei]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

... which will drive away either the privateers or the factories.

Or the fans...

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

Or the fans...

I am very much in a wait and see mode on this one. DPi, on paper, is a much better platform for most factories and all-pro privateer efforts than WEC P1/P1-P/P2 are from an economics point of view.

Manufacturers are going to take very different approaches that can all work. Mazda and GM seem to be going the exclusive team route. HPD wants to develop and engine to sell to customers (Nissan already has one if they elect to go this route). This approach had a lot of success in the glory days of the ALMS when Audi, Porsche, and Mazda all went with 1 or 2 heavily supported factory teams and HPD had the Indycar crowd. As long as they commit to the GT3 performance balancing aspect I am all for it. As we have seen in global GT3, factories and privateers can play well together as long as everyone has the ability to buy a competitive car.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the racing in P, GTLM, and GTD have all been really good this year with a vast array of machinery. Daytona and Sebring were both classics. I think IMSA has the technical talent to get it right. Time will tell if they do.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I disagree with most of Brent Jackson's post, but it seems he and I share a fear ... that in the absence of a widely available Competitive customer car, DPi is going to be another two-tier class BoP'd to pick the winners.

Given what I've been hearing from Gibson, the only way the privateer P2s will be slower than the factory DPis is if IMSA deliberately BoPs them out of contention(or if the chassis builder completely screws up, but at least then the privateers can switch to a better make). I think even IMSA is smart enough to not shoot themselves in the foot that badly.

[Damian Baldi]

I have watched both races (ELMS and IMSA), and you are right about the ELMS being a series with amateur drivers, but if you don't know that, you could bid that the ELMS series is more PRO than what IMSA was this weekend at Long Beach.

[Rcz]

The ELMS is a feeder series to the WEC and IMSA is the top sportscar series in America. I don't think make the IMSA series a feeder series will help it grow.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by Rcz

The ELMS is a feeder series to the WEC and IMSA is the top sportscar series in America. I don't think make the IMSA series a feeder series will help it grow.

Right.

So ... who suggested that?

All I ever said was that the ELMS race was a lot more exciting than most IMSA races, better presented, I liked the cars better, I liked the racing ... and since I liked it better, I want iMSA, the series which I can actually afford to attend and which i follow regularly throughout the season, could offer an experience on par with ELMS.

I don't recall anyone saying IMSA should be Pro-Am, or a feeder series, or any of that. What I said, and what other people also said, was that the ELMS race was a really good race and in their and my opinion, better than about all IMSA races.

By the way, I attended Sebring and Daytona, and I have praised both events. In fact, I am a little upset that IMSA seems finally to getting a grip on the DOP/P2 balance and is going to toss it after this season. That said, I am sort of optimistic about DPi ... Worlds better than FIA P2 will be, with a spec engine.

However, I enjoyed the ELMS race a lot. I am not sure why, but I liked it better than most IMSA races. Therefore it seemed only natural for me to wish for the same quality form IMSA races.

Since when is it wrong to want what you care about to improve? Why should it be controversial? Would people be happier if I said I want IMSA to sucK?

I want IMSA to be the best series on the planet, if for no other reason that that my budget does not allow me to attend any WEC or ELMS events. if that offends anyone ... well, frankly, tough.

[Damian Baldi]

If you see last saturday race with the eyes of somebody who never see racing car, it was poor, almost sad (talking just about the DP/P2). Poor grid, low action, short race. We are talking about IMSA, it should be something big. If next year there isn't good racing and at least 10 P2 cars per race, I don't know where all this will be in a few years.

For the next year I see a big problem with the regs. They just allow to race teams using an engine brand paired with the brand bodywork, and I think it's a mistake because a private team should be able to use any chassis brand with whatever engine, instead to be obliged to use the chassis that the engine supplier choose. At least private teams should be able to use the same chassis than the engine supplier but without the need to use the brand bodywork. It would be very boring to see so few combinations of cars.

[Rcz]

If it was me...


The first year of the merger would just look like this:
DP, P2, GTE, GT3, GX. With P1 and PC eliminated.

DP would've upgraded as before. But over time the car would be more and more freed up. Carbon chassis would be allowed, and the cockpit would have the same dimensions as a P1 car. Use GT3 engine rules. The only limitating aero (aside from traditional sportcars one) would be the the front bumper which would be kept upright and radiator must be kept up in front of the bulkhead. This would keep it from looking like a F1 car with fenders.

P2 would still be Pro am, making PC pointless, I would just ingnore the new Aco rules and just keep the category the same.

GTE, no change

GT3, would have adopted immediately. No manufacturers tax.

GX, all Porsche GTC and the tube-framers from Grand-Am would go here. Eventually over time GT4 would replace them.



But instead they tried to put two radical different cars together thinking it would work. And continue to harm GTD for stupid reasons.

[BrentJackson]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Not a terrible idea, and one many like as well, but the thing with Class One safety cells is that they're decidedly more expensive than the LMP2 chassis is expected to be - don't forget, they're designed to be the core of component of cars that are little more than front-engined-full-bodied Formula One cars. (andn if you want to allow rear-engine cars as well, there are problems to overcome with a Class One chassis, as Honda Japan can tell you about quite well)

Fair points (though I struggle to think of why a design of car similar to Class One has to be far more expensive than an LMP2 car, considering its design and construction), but here I'm not seeing a whole lot of other options for a top category that actually can get support. If this idea doesn't work, what would work instead?

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

The bigger issue with using Class One as a base is that top-tier sportscar racing is cyclical. Factories come, factories go. What happens when the next factory drought occurs? Class One, no matter how you slice it, is a factory-driven idea. It's not going to work well with those factories gone.

DPi, being based off of LMP safety cells, is not only a cheaper option, but it's using a base that has protection against it built into the concept; LMP2 is meant for privateers - it EXISTS to be able to thrive in the absence of factories.

The main problem with this is that Atherton's statements make it clear that he expects DPi to be like GTE, which is to say a factory class. Which then runs into the inevitable - and it is inevitable, as Stephane Ratel has been trying fairly successfully to dodge but still knows himself - problem of how do you balance multi-million-dollar factory efforts with custom-designed DPi bodywork and engines against the spec chassis with built-for-the-purpose spec engines and ECUs and NOT have a problem rooted in BoP? IMSA took two years to get the BoP right with the current cars and people still complain about it left, right and centre. Think that's bad now? Wait until GM starts getting annoyed at being beaten fairly regularly by the spec ACO cars. At that point, IMSA is gonna have to make a call on whether to tell GM to suck it up (thus probably running them and very likely Mazda out) or allowing GM to run over the category (which then runs the privateers out).

People can talk of GT3 being a case where they sorted it out, but have they really? The teams most commonly successful in Blancpain - WRT with Audi, M-Sport with Bentley, RJN with Nissan, Black Falcon with Mercedes, Von Ryan with McLaren - are all factory supported at the very least. Blancpain works because the GT3 category is a lower-cost one with a vast amount of support grown through a decade of sometimes hard-won development and lessons and the ability to promote many types of very different cars as competitors. The DPi won't be able to do that by design - there are four cars, chosen by what amounts to nepotism, and with Atherton's assumption that the factories will be factory-backed, he will invariably get a field that is by design unequal in a way that BoP simply cannot equitably fix. Nobody here is foolish enough to believe that GM will support having to race against spec cars.

The only way I can see this working is if the DPi is the ONLY allowed category (by that I mean no Gibson-powered spec P2s allowed, or make them run in a lower class) and that IMSA requires the bodywork and engine packages to be sold to any team who wants to run it. Mazda and Honda would probably have little issue with that, Nissan as well. GM would be a tossup on that.

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

That sort of protection would also exist in an upgraded GT3 class - since GT3 cars can be built by independent tuners the end of factory involvement is unlikely to kill the class, it will merely shift it's focus. So having a higher-tier class built off of converted GT3s makes for a top-tier class that will always have some sort of support base.

Somebody might want to point out to Callaway the bold part.

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Unfortunately(or fortunately depending on one's POV), as things stand right now, the LMP chassis provides the best base for IMSA to build a class off of. They're just...not doing it the way they REALLY should be.

In five years time, who knows? Maybe there'll be a "Super GT3" or some other superior basis for a the top IMSA class. For the time being however... I just wish IMSA would get their heads on straight about how to do the class.

And what is that, exactly?

The rules require the use of four chosen chassis, only ONE of which is among the companies who have been backing IMSA for many years. Onroak deserves credit for making a great car, but they aren't really a big player in North America and never have been. Dallara is also fairly new to the game, aside from building the Audi R8 and Chrysler LMP fifteen years ago. Even if it is just Oreca shoving the ACO into this spec car garbage (and I don't buy that, sorry), what does it matter? Coyote and HPD, two companies who have done more than pretty much anybody else in the last few years of the ALMS and Grand-Am to keep things moving, have been screwed out of being involved in its future. Why? Because the French makers wanted easy profits. What kinda crap is that? More to the point, what the hell does IMSA gain out of that? Screwing makers is worth the ability for a couple of teams to go to Le Mans, if they can afford the million dollars to do so (and now not even that much opportunity, as the ACO is looking to screw the DPis out of Le Mans)?

Once you get past that stupid point, the rules do not allow changes to the rear wing, engine cover, cockpit and fender openings. Effectively, add your own headlights and taillights and sidepods, but heavens don't really change the aerodynamics of the design. And of course, when the DP did the same thing, people here laughed their heads off at it. Are those people laughing now? The limits of the car's modifications are such that real brand differentiation would result in changing aerodynamics in a way that makes BoP a difficult and expensive process.

What are people expecting the DPi to be? What is the way they really should be, then?

Beyond that, how does a 'Super GT3' class work? GTLM already has the BMW M6 which is effectively a souped-up GT3, so really we're already there.

What do people anticipate here? Do we allow the McLaren, Porsche and Ferrari hypercars? Do we push to have this big-banger GT class occupied by non-hybrid supercars like the Lamborghini Aventador and Pagani Huayra? What does this class do to differentiate itself from GTLM and GTD? What does this 'Super GT3' class to make itself known and popular?

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

For the record, however, Oreca and Onroak did NOT use their inside connections to ruin LMP2. It was Oreca alone doing that - Onroak was actually locked out of several meetings Oreca was part of regarding the creations of the 2017 P2 rules. Onroak has even been among the most vocal critics of the four-chassis limit.

Even if it was just Oreca, nothing changes the fact that the ACO and their friends are screwing IMSA. They started by putting most of the North American suppliers out of the game (and probably out of business in some cases) and now, IMSA having made that alarmingly stupid concession, is trying to figure out a way to allow manufacturers to run these cars while keeping them legal for Le Mans, and of course with months to go before the cars are supposed to be racing for the first time, NOW the ACO balks at that, too, and instead demands the manufacturers that want to run IMSA instead go spend tens of millions on P1 efforts just for the honor of racing at Le Mans, forcing IMSA to either wreck their own momentum or break the relationship that resulted in these pieces of crap being made in the first place.

I will vocally and happily say this - if it was me running IMSA, I would not only be killing the DPi now and sticking with the existing P2+DP+DeltaWing formula until the big-bore GT rules are developed, but I would also explicitly say that Oreca is not welcome in the next generation of IMSA top class cars, and that if Onroak and Dallara want to be involved, set up shop in Canada or the United States and make the cars here. Not hard for Dallara, as they already have a expansive facility in Indianapolis. I don't expect much in the way of European or Asian sales for the Riley/Multimatic psuedo-spec P2, so if they get booted, they'll be able to make up for it stateside. And I would also make it clear that any P2 made illegal by the incoming turds is perfectly welcome in IMSA, in case somebody who has been screwed by these rules (calling SMP and Strakka and anybody with a Gibson chassis) wants to come race in IMSA to get some more use out of their substantial investments.

And no, I wouldn't care if the ACO has a problem with that or not. I want European interest as well, but not at the cost of wrecking the series' supporters and forcing these terrible cars onto teams. IMSA's priorities come first, and if that makes them markedly different from the racers of Europe, so be it.

[HORNDAWG]

The DPi and P2 chassis is what the near future will be, PERIOD! This hypothetical fantasy rehashing of something that has already been settled is beyond belief. This thread is about DPi which IS going to be built off of the same chassis as the 4 approved and agreed upon constructors for the P2 chassis.







L.P.