LMS 2011 Discussion

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Félix

-Furthermore, there is no TV coverage for Estoril - it's been a factor in the decision

Speaking of which, what on earth happened to the Motors TV deal they were supposed to have for this weekend?!

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Oreca produced a new tub for RML in June this year, following Mike Newton's lamentable accident at Spa. It was delivered just before Le Mans, but not in time to have full conversion to HPD specification and meet the tight schedule. As a result, the fomer Andretti Green tub was borrowed from HPD, and used not only for the 24 Hours, but also at Imola in July. This gave Wirth and RML plenty of time to complete the conversion and subsequent rebuild of the replacement tub.

I do not believe Oreca has built any further tubs for HPD since that one in June for RML. Indeed, I heard that they have refused to do so. My understanding is that both tubs used for the Level 5 ARX-01g chassis are pre-existing . . . and I leave you to ponder which is which!

That's interesting about the Level 5 tubs. I would assume that the Highcroft (the one that was used for the ARX-01e) and AGR tubs were used. Am I close?

I wonder if HPD/Wirth is working on making a cost-capped LMP2 version of the ARX-03. It seems like the ARX-01g is just a temporary situation if new cars and replacement cars can't be built. It's also interesting that Level 5 would go a route where replacement tubs are limited given what happened to them this year at Spa, but who knows. I suppose it is possible for them to buy an Oreca 03 and just use the tub, right? What about a FLM09? Could that be used? Even if those avenues work, it would be expensive!

As for the AGR tub, is it correct that the ex-AGR chassis belongs to HPD now (assuming that Level 5 isn't using it)? Did it ever belong to AGR or was it strictly property of HPD/Acura?

Originally Posted by Félix

Speaking of RML,
-they want to be fully competitive for 2012 (doesn't mention with what)

I believe RML will be running a cost-capped ARX-01g next year.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by AGD

That's interesting about the Level 5 tubs. I would assume that the Highcroft (the one that was used for the ARX-01e) and AGR tubs were used. Am I close?

I wonder if HPD/Wirth is working on making a cost-capped LMP2 version of the ARX-03. It seems like the ARX-01g is just a temporary situation if new cars and replacement cars can't be built. It's also interesting that Level 5 would go a route where replacement tubs are limited given what happened to them this year at Spa, but who knows. I suppose it is possible for them to buy an Oreca 03 and just use the tub, right? What about a FLM09? Could that be used? Even if those avenues work, it would be expensive!

Maybe they can be adapted to use the ARX-03 tub?

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Maybe they can be adapted to use the ARX-03 tub?

From the inferences given in the HPD feature on DSC, retro-compatibility of the 03 tub would indeed appear to be an option.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Thumper

From the inferences given in the HPD feature on DSC, retro-compatibility of the 03 tub would indeed appear to be an option.

That's interesting if the LC75 and the ARX-03 tubs are close enough that they can be used interchangeably. I wonder how much would have to be swapped to achieve a changeover and if that would fit within the spirit of the cost-capped rules. Also, would it ruin budgets for spares for the teams?

You would think Oreca would be more concerned about IP violations if the two tubs are so close in design, but maybe not? Also, you would think that Oreca would want a small piece of the ARX-0x pie, even if it is not as much as they would make with an Oreca 03, if Wirth can make the whole car by themselves. Either way, it's a most interesting situation amongst the two LMP2 powerhouses.

[carsten66]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Speaking of which, what on earth happened to the Motors TV deal they were supposed to have for this weekend?!

Instead of that Motors TV first will show live the ACO's Le Mans Moto 24 Hours and later on the races of the Superstars International Series from Mugello...

[The Badger]

Goes to show , thay the original Courage tub was brilliant .

Who was it said of the Courage tub , Acura person , that the car was undrivable as a Courage . Obviously talking outta the top of his hat .

I remember Gounon being very quick in it .

[Félix]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Goes to show , thay the original Courage tub was brilliant .

Who was it said of the Courage tub , Acura person , that the car was undrivable as a Courage . Obviously talking outta the top of his hat .

I remember Gounon being very quick in it .

A tub is just a tub. It doesn't have much of a bearing on a car's performance if
-the rollhoops don't have too much drag
-the footbox is raised enough to maximize underbody aerodynamics
-the structure is stiff enough
-the suspension pick up points don't limit adjustability or spring/damper mounting

The Deltawing will be built around an AMR-One tub it seems. The problem with the original Courage was not the tub, and everyone who modified/worked with it, including Oreca, talked about it needing quite a bit of work to be right.

And the ARX-03 will certainly have a footbox raised higher than the LC70 - much like the ARX-02 - which could in turn bring a need for new suspension parts.

[Speedman]

Does anybody know if Estoril is being shown live on any website? I think Audi only show ILMC races on their site.

[Marcel ten Caat]

The reason Motors isn't showing it is because there are no camera crews at Estoril.

Race won't be shown anywhere...including the media centre apparently.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Stranger

The reason Motors isn't showing it is because there are no camera crews at Estoril.

Race won't be shown anywhere...including the media centre apparently.

I can watch a club motorcycle race at Southside Park Raceway here live on television, but cannot watch the LMS at Estoril in any form. And I thought ALMS and ILMC media coverage was bad...

Doubt I will bother with Estoril, RLM is great and timing is detailed but without live pictures of any kind a race just doesnt feel like a proper race.

[Dead-Eye]

edit: This post has officially been declared rubbish by the author.

[Mike_Wooshy]

1 word .... Failure....

[courageous]

Originally Posted by Stranger

The reason Motors isn't showing it is because there are no camera crews at Estoril.

camera crews will be there as they are shooting the SPEED series (not live, but they will be there)

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Stranger

The reason Motors isn't showing it is because there are no camera crews at Estoril.

Race won't be shown anywhere...including the media centre apparently.

That's pretty unbelievable if there are no cameras. Isn't the LMS still doing highlight shows? Maybe not, I don't know. Xtremproductions06 have their video podcasts this season.

Anyway, I know the LMS is focusing on the participants more than the spectators, but no cameras would be pretty extreme. Then again, not worrying about the fans might actually produce a really good race. Too bad we won't be able to see it! It's not like I would have seen it anyway since I am in the US.

[isynge]

Astonished if news of no camera crews at Estoril is true.

Looking at 1970s (and very early 80s) footage of Le Mans it's clear the one camera they had moved around the circuit and coverage reflected this, it was perfectly fair bearing in mind cost of equipment and film stock.

In this day and age this is indefensible. Even if we take the view that the LMS is run exclusively for entrants (i.e. high net worth individuals who want an upmarket track day) they'll want footage that ultimately they can share - and this requires there to be cameras at the right place around the track and have them taking footage - and the cost of this is a lot less than it used to be.

All very sad - there's the scope for sportscars to grasp the attention of a whole new generation with fantastic racing, great cars, and coverage delivered over an array of platforms (see what Audi and Peugeot have done, and indeed the ALMS feeds) that are only going to grow. Running the LMS like a club series will, enormously sadly, doom it to irrelevance and ultimately oblivion.

[JAG]

I believe the series will have decent grids next season but sportscar fans in Europe receive more coverage of the ALMS. Drayson and AMR's ALMS exploits were covered widely so it would be good to see more European LMP's racing in NA.

[The Badger]

It would be great to see the American series being supported more by American manufacturers . After all , it is their series .

[Deleted]

I've used to following LMS races without any live pictures in the recent years (couldn't receive Eurosport feed or anything,) so I guess it's just back to old times for me. But even RLM won't be covering practice sessions, just quali+warmup+race.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by isynge

Astonished if news of no camera crews at Estoril is true.

Looking at 1970s (and very early 80s) footage of Le Mans it's clear the one camera they had moved around the circuit and coverage reflected this, it was perfectly fair bearing in mind cost of equipment and film stock.

In this day and age this is indefensible. Even if we take the view that the LMS is run exclusively for entrants (i.e. high net worth individuals who want an upmarket track day) they'll want footage that ultimately they can share - and this requires there to be cameras at the right place around the track and have them taking footage - and the cost of this is a lot less than it used to be.

All very sad - there's the scope for sportscars to grasp the attention of a whole new generation with fantastic racing, great cars, and coverage delivered over an array of platforms (see what Audi and Peugeot have done, and indeed the ALMS feeds) that are only going to grow. Running the LMS like a club series will, enormously sadly, doom it to irrelevance and ultimately oblivion.

Let's remember that there is a big difference between live tv, and just video capturing.

It's easy to record a race with the use of one man, but making live tv that works is a lot harder and requires a bigger staff.

[AGD]

It is interesting to see the lack of interest in this weekend's race from just about everyone's perspective. Ok, the lack of TV coverage is one thing, but still. We're a couple hours from the first session and there is very little discussion about the event. I wonder if the ILMC has killed interest in this event from a broad perspective and from the perspective that there hasn't been a real LMS race since Ricard many months ago. Ok, there have been races, but nobody thought of those middle races as being LMS races. Maybe the LMS was right to go there own way so they can build and maintain some momentum for their series throughout the year.

[NaBUru38]

No live web streaming?

[AGD]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

No live web streaming?

Video? No, but RLM is live as I write this for the 2nd practice session.

[JAG]

It was said in a Speed chat Peter is looking to downsize venues and switch to northern European areas, if they went to places like Brands, Zandvoort, Zolder with a dozen or more P2's they'd have a great product.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by JAG

It was said in a Speed chat Peter is looking to downsize venues and switch to northern European areas, if they went to places like Brands, Zandvoort, Zolder with a dozen or more P2's they'd have a great product.

I'm actually quite looking forward to the prospect of LMS at Silverstone being complemented by an LMS round at Brands Hatch or Donington (the latter perhaps more likely) - means more sportscars to watch in the UK. Equally if it brings these sort of cars back to other tracks in easy striking distance I'm all in favour.