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6 Apr 2011, 12:48 (Ref:2859653) | #451 | |||
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9 Apr 2011, 02:01 (Ref:2860730) | #452 | ||
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Bought some really nice transporters / portable hotels, and built several really fancy factories and a number of grand houses with the money saved though! |
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10 Apr 2011, 13:41 (Ref:2861359) | #453 | ||
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I hope this isn't off topic, but...
Is anyone is else... um, disapointed that the hard tire is so much slower and yet not much more durable? I like the idea of 3 stops, but it seems like there's very little strategy involved. The only strategy seems to be to come in before the tires are shot. It doesn't look like it's going to be possible to stretch the tires far enough to cut out a stop. |
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10 Apr 2011, 14:00 (Ref:2861368) | #454 | |
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I think in today's race there were some who stopped three times and others who stopped four times - and that was because of different strategies, not because of unforeseen problems.
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10 Apr 2011, 15:37 (Ref:2861399) | #455 | ||
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It seemed like the guys who stopped four times ran the tires off four times, rather than planned a strategy to do so. Heidfeld, Hamilton and Schumacher (twice) all came in after having offs and there may have been more that I don't remember or who weren't shown. Hamilton had to make an extra stop with less than 5 laps to go after he ran off the hard tires.
I don't really like the idea that the drivers can't predict when the tires are going to go, but my biggest complaint is why is the hard so slow and hardly more durable?* * I blame the FIA, of course, because we all know Pirelli could make a square, teflon tire that would grip and ride smooth--if they wanted. |
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10 Apr 2011, 15:46 (Ref:2861407) | #456 | ||
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Webber was on Plan 'A' and Vettel was put on Plan 'B' during the race - so presumably he was on Plan 'A' up until that time. Webber stopped one more time than Vettel..... |
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10 Apr 2011, 15:48 (Ref:2861410) | #457 | |||
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I get your point Huge. Surely the hard tyre should last (significantly) longer as well as be slower. That brings another element into play - a choice for team and driver.
A car bad on tyres could mainly go for the hard ones. A car good on tyres could either go for hards and less stops, or maybe softs and the same number of stops. I guess Pirelli might still be finding their way a little. However we should also remember that the tracks influence this alot and for some we may not see what we want. The change (and uncertainty) from one race to another is a good thing. Quote:
They went with two plans depending on how it turned out. They also talked about 'phases' which seemed to indicate that Vettel could tell when they were going off. |
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10 Apr 2011, 15:51 (Ref:2861411) | #458 | |
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Button, I think, managed 19 laps on the harder 'Prime' tyre in his last stint. This was 3 laps longer than anyone had managed to run on the Prime (according to MacLaren) and a lot longer than the Options would last. So, some difference in durability, but maybe not enough....?
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10 Apr 2011, 15:53 (Ref:2861413) | #459 | |
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Yes, Phase '1' and Phase '2' you mean? From what he said on the radio, he plainly could feel when they went away. Also, the stopwatch would confirm I'm sure....
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10 Apr 2011, 16:51 (Ref:2861440) | #460 | |
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Whatever is happening with the tyres, they are certainly more challenging for the drivers than Bridgestones last efforts.
Pirelli wanted to avoid one stop races at all costs. Which may be the reason that the harder tyre only lasts marginally longer than the softer tyre. |
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10 Apr 2011, 16:57 (Ref:2861442) | #461 | |
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If the Prime tyres could last half race distance and Options anything less, wouldn't that achieve the desired effect? Button managed nearly 34% race distance on a lighter-than-average fuel load on the Primes. If this was extended to 50% of race distance, then a two or three stops (with two sets of Options designed to run maybe 25% and no more each) would really open things up between the Q3 dropouts and the guys starting on 'used' Options ahead of them. Maybe that is just too artifical...
Last edited by phoenix; 10 Apr 2011 at 17:04. |
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10 Apr 2011, 16:59 (Ref:2861445) | #462 | |||||
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As for Pirelli I really don't blame them, but I'm sick of hearing them 'brag' about what a good job they did making a bad tire. And saying they could make a good tire. I'm sick of that and they make it easy to mock them and it's fun... so I do. Quote:
I don't object to tire management/strategy being hard, but I feel like it's very random. |
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10 Apr 2011, 17:08 (Ref:2861449) | #463 | ||
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I see what you mean. I'm not sure if it is random, or whether it is just new and we just don't get it yet. The jury should still be out.
As an aside, if I were at Pirelli I'd have started saying I was doing a good job. The drivers (bless) were whinging about them and forums such as this was full of Pirelli rubbish tyre action. |
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10 Apr 2011, 17:13 (Ref:2861451) | #464 | ||
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My other thoughts are that, whilst Button may seem to be 'A-political' and 'Mr Niceguy' he is not daft and is as good a game-player as anyone - just by saying those few words he has probably un-nerved his biggest rival at the next race - his team mate! |
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10 Apr 2011, 17:16 (Ref:2861454) | #465 | ||
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It may be that China is more like Melbourne was or it may be even more extreme than Sepang. That's what I like about these tyres. |
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10 Apr 2011, 17:24 (Ref:2861459) | #466 | ||
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Remember that the main problem with the Brdgestones is that two sets of tyres (one prime, one option) would normally get them through Q3 and the whole race... |
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10 Apr 2011, 17:45 (Ref:2861466) | #467 | |||
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Interesting take on Button--I love it! I didn't even consider that. I guess I lowered my BS guard when he didn't begin with: "to be honest". Everytime an F1 driver says that I put my boots on and am surprised if what comes next seems remotely true. Of course, it's not a big stretch. Either the car came alive or he did. Something happened. No doubt, Lewis will be asked why the disparity between his performance and Button's on the prime...especially since Button's car 'came alive' on the prime. |
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10 Apr 2011, 22:51 (Ref:2861598) | #468 | ||
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I thought Button certainly showed how it can be done with those Pirellis.
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10 Apr 2011, 22:57 (Ref:2861601) | #469 | ||
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During one of the practice sessions the BBC radio team went through a few tweets, in one of them one of the viewer asked "If the tires are designed to be like Canada in every race, what will happen when they race in Canada". Its an interesting question |
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11 Apr 2011, 00:03 (Ref:2861620) | #470 | ||
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Driver Result Tyre Choice by Stint Jenson Button 2nd Super Soft | Medium | Medium Lewis Hamilton 1st Super Soft | Medium | Medium Michael Schumacher11th Medium | Medium | Medium | Super Soft Nico Rosberg 6th Super Soft | Medium | Medium Sebastian Vettel 4th Medium | Super Soft | Medium Mark Webber 5th Medium | Medium | Super Soft Felipe Massa 15th Super Soft | Medium | Medium | Medium | Super Soft Fernando Alonso 3rd Super Soft | Medium | Medium Rubens Barrichello 14th Super Soft | Medium | Medium | Medium Nico Hulkenberg 13th Medium | Medium | Medium | Medium | Super Soft Robert Kubica 7th Medium | Medium | Medium | Super Soft Vitaly Petrov 17th Medium | Medium | Medium | Medium | Super Soft Adrian Sutil 10th Super Soft | Medium | Medium Vitantonio Liuzzi 9th Super Soft | Medium | Medium Sebastien Buemi 8th Medium | Medium | Medium | Super Soft Jaime Alguersuari 12th Super Soft | Medium | Medium | Medium Jarno Trulli DNF Super Soft | Medium | Medium | Medium | Medium Heikki Kovalainen 16th Medium | Medium | Medium | Super Soft Karun Chandhok 18th Medium | Medium | Super Soft Bruno Senna DNF Medium Pedro de la Rosa DNF Medium | Medium | Medium Kamui Kobayashi DNF Super Soft Timo Glock DNF Medium | Medium | Medium | Super Soft | Super Soft Lucas di Grassi 19th Medium | Medium | Medium | Super Soft |
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11 Apr 2011, 00:06 (Ref:2861623) | #471 | |
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Still not really keen on these tyres. The marbles off line and the ridiculous artificiality of it all. Drivers having to make four stops is just epic mongishness of the highest order.
I much preferred the 2005 solution to tyre management but hey ho. |
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11 Apr 2011, 00:27 (Ref:2861636) | #472 | ||
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I can see your point. But, generally speaking, the race order was pretty much decided in 2005 after about the first 3 corners (unless you happened to be in a Ferrari). Not even having to stop for fuel made much difference. No surprise then, that it only survived one season. |
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11 Apr 2011, 00:32 (Ref:2861639) | #473 | |
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It made for some brilliant races that evolved gradually. Monaco for example was enthralling.
This current solution is very much instant gratification. It grates. The reason it wasn't retained beyond 2005 was...well, it was nothing to do with entertainment put it that way. |
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11 Apr 2011, 00:45 (Ref:2861644) | #474 | |
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11 Apr 2011, 01:57 (Ref:2861654) | #475 | |
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