General Sportscar Chat thread

[Deleted]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2014/0...rt-report.html
Wow 50,000 attendance for vintage Group C meeting??? Current european sportscar series would love those figures

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Chiana

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2014/0...rt-report.html
Wow 50,000 attendance for vintage Group C meeting??? Current european sportscar series would love those figures

Sort of, it was the Zandvoort Historic GP, lots and lots of different historic and vintage racing series, old F1s the big crowd drawer. But lots of folks saw the Group C who had never been there before so it could have been the first time for quite a few to witness them!

[Deleted]

Oh right that explains it. Good outcome nevertheless

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Some '14 attendance figures from Truswell's blog:

Le Mans ACO 263,300
N24 ADAC 205,000
Spa24 SRO 60,000

Issued by the organizers and calculated by whatever methods so don't take too seriously

Take them always with a big pinch of salt.

How many did visit the F1 GP at Spa?

[Deleted]

When it comes to attendance figures, there's the relatively-honest counting used by most of the circuits, and then there's 'Silverstone counting' (RLM gang will thell you more about that )

Dunno about Belgian GP figures but it's been one of the lower attended European GPs for a while. 1000km/6h event has cruised around 25,000-35,000 for many years now and I doubt the GP attendance is even double that. It was around 50,000 when the decade turned. I did actually make some comparisons few years ago about that but have lost the figures

Spa is such a bittersweet circuit for me as it's the only international one I've actually visited (well... sort of) and there are so many memories attached to that place, but the present day look of it makes me want to hurt myself.

[Mal]

I am not sure we are at this stage yet - but it is fun to read:

http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/w...-of-motorsport


....... not sure I want it either!

[Deleted]

Daydreaming. However great the product here could possibly be (30 works cars in P1 and rest of them being GT1s ) and no matter how low F1 sinks (DRS-lawn mower races on Uncle Bernard's backyard?), it's never going to be anywhere near as popular due to the focus being on cars not drivers and the format & distances which are not mass-friendly in any shape or form.

[Mal]

I see Motors TV will be on Freeview channel 71 from tomorrow (UK)

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2014/10/07/43271.html

[Speed-King]

Kind of interesting:

French GT-Tour to switch to two 90 minutes races per weekend next year:

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/sep...-par-equipage/

The intent is to allow for three drivers per car and thus to revive the recently slumping entry figures by allowing the teams to spread the costs. Might come around to bite them in the backside, with some teams running one car with one pro and two ams instead of two pro/am pairings, methinks.

[the sniper]

Just out of curiosity folks, has a figure ever been 'bounded about' or reported for roughly how much it'd cost for a privateer to purchase and/or run a 919 Hybrid or TS040 Hybrid? I imagine any privateer would effectively have to be semi-works due to the Hybrid systems. What were the financial arrangements behind the Pescarolo and Oreca Peugeot 908s, maybe that'd act as a guide?

I ask as I just have this fantasy vision of what the WEC could be, effectively a modern WSC of the Group C era! I just wonder how fanciful it is to imagine a fuller grid of Manufacturer built LMP1-H's, what with TOM's and SARD TS040s, maybe Penske and Rebellion with 919s... A Le Mans & WEC where it wouldn't just be a small handful of works team cars disappearing into the distance, with the other non-Manufaturer LMP1s/Rebellions not far ahead of the LMP2s!

Sorry to stick this in the rumours thread folks, it seemed like the least off topic place to pose this question!

[deggis]

Originally Posted by the sniper

What were the financial arrangements behind the Pescarolo and Oreca Peugeot 908s, maybe that'd act as a guide?

I have a vague memory that some figure has been mentioned somewhere about the bill sent to Pescarolo after they destroyed the car in the crash. Generally Pescarolo's financial issues seemed to start after that.

I think we won't see true customer cars at least not in a long time (until the HY tech gets cheaper and matures). Regardless of what the car itself costs, running it requires a lot of personnel and no current privateer has that kind of resources. And you can't just simply remove the ERS parts either.

[Deleted]

Hybrid privateers also lose the separate race by race EoT adjustments. Meaning that while customer factory chassis runners would likely still be ahead of the non-hybrid privateers thanks to cars being more advanced (even if not necessarily up-to-date), it'd be a journey to pointless & expensive no-man's land between the two groups.

[Deleted]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2014/1...s-ignored.html

I struggle to understand what point Graham is trying to make. Of course F1 dominates everything, just as NASCAR does in US. It doesn't matter if Caterham laundering for money or Hamilton buying new socks is no-news and irrelevant in comparison to "real news elsewhere", it's what sells.

What exactly should one be expecting, national and international media outlets widely speaking of championship wins in some myriad sportscar championship? Name 'FIA World' in the title does not guarantee anything, the series/event has to be at certain level to be able to make the headlines. And just because the driver winning series X is the same nationality as you (like no-news Franchittis and Wheldons in IndyCar) it doesn't give you fame if that sport is not "hot" in your home country. For example, the one and only sportscar related thing that ever gets reported (unless someone dramatically dies) in Finnish TV is some 30 second clip of Audi winning Le Mans + how Toni Vilander and co may or may not have succeeded. That it is. In mags and web, it's the same, you have to go to specialist press to find something. That's just the way it is, if world's biggest sportscar race cannot get more than what should you expect from non-specialist media when it comes to everything else.

And how are FIA and national motorsport governing bodies supposed to influence what the general media reports? Sure they can increase the PR, but that doesn't change what the big outlets want to write.

It's unfortunate, but what can you do...

[deggis]

Inferiority complex is strong.

[J Jay]

F1 dominating the motorsports headlines has happened for as long as I can remember, not sure why the reappearance of an FIA-endorsed sportscar championship should magically turn the tide. To be fair go Goodwin it would be great to see more (any?) mainstream coverage of sportscars, but it's naive to think that sporting success should guarantee column inches in the age of instant gratification where easy stories and hits/likes are all that count. His mention of Caterham seems to be stretching things rather - even if that sorry mess was wiped from everyone's memory, there would still be scant coverage of this weekend's WEC race.

I've said it before but I like repeating myself - sportscar racing (and the people involved in it, hint hint) should be trying to define itself on its own terms, not in competition or as opposed to F1. That juggernaut isn't going anywhere; even if they raced 2CVs from now on it would still get all the media coverage.

[Deleted]

Yes, indeed.

This sport is synonymous with specialist press.

[deggis]

On the other hand, at least use of "WEC" term is definitely picking up generally. For exampe, a Finnish F1 news site had a headline (ironically) about Button or Alonso and "WEC" was directly in the headline. First time I've seen that. Usually it has been translated to something like "endurance world championship series" which sounds lame in Finnish.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by deggis

On the other hand, at least use of "WEC" term is definitely picking up generally. For exampe, a Finnish F1 news site had a headline (ironically) about Button or Alonso and "WEC" was directly in the headline. First time I've seen that. Usually it has been translated to something like "endurance world championship series" which sounds lame in Finnish.

What, this?
Magazine: Two F1-champions linked to another series

Couldn't find anything else with that decribtion, the rest were other copycatted articles from elsewhere like Webber wanting Button to switch to sportscars ("Leave formula(e)")

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Chiana

What, this?
Magazine: Two F1-champions linked to another series

Couldn't find anything else with that decribtion, the rest were other copycatted articles from elsewhere like Webber wanting Button to switch to sportscars ("Leave formula(e)")

Now thinking about it, I think it was MTV3 teletext... which might expain why it was shortened. Can't find it from the website. It was something like "Alonsoa houkutellaan WEC:iin".

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by deggis

Now thinking about it, I think it was MTV3 teletext... which might expain why it was shortened. Can't find it from the website. It was something like "Alonsoa houkutellaan WEC:iin".

Right. Well I guess that's... something

[TF110]

It is sad that the bigger news is about Caterham making the final F1 race rather than Davidson and Buemi (former F1 drivers themselves) winning the wec drivers title. But Bernie has helped with that. He has manufactured controversy from mediocrity. F1 sucks the life out of other forms of racing due to its popularity.

[Alex Langheck]

Originally Posted by TF110

It is sad that the bigger news is about Caterham making the final F1 race rather than Davidson and Buemi (former F1 drivers themselves) winning the wec drivers title. But Bernie has helped with that. He has manufactured controversy from mediocrity. F1 sucks the life out of other forms of racing due to its popularity.

And it’s not an accident or bad luck that this has happened. The previous regime were ‘persuaded’ to help F1; which damaged the other series. So much so, that to the general public and media, F1=Motorsport.

[GT6]

perhaps that is changing, manufacturers are not exactly wanting to be associated with F1 at the moment and the public is getting anoyed with it, it is perhaps the media that still seems to treat f1 in the same vain as it generates headlines often for the wrong reasons. WEC is growing in popularity at the moment with manufactures and the public.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by GT6

perhaps that is changing, manufacturers are not exactly wanting to be associated with F1 at the moment and the public is getting anoyed with it, it is perhaps the media that still seems to treat f1 in the same vain as it generates headlines often for the wrong reasons. WEC is growing in popularity at the moment with manufactures and the public.

Thats in line with what Im hinting at in my post. Bernie is a clever fella! Even if f1 is getting bad press, its still press. Its a soap opera but the media gobbles it up. 'Real racing news' gets a tiny corner of F1's new front page scandal of the week.

[bella]

in a way, perhaps not the way bernie meant, he's not wrong though.

if you think about it, the older generations (trying to be polite here ) want a return to what by modern standards is a luddite car, with basic simple "run what you brung" rules. the younger generations probably wouldn't mind it either if they knew what it looked like

younger generations really aren't as influenced by sports advertising as the older pre-social media and life-built-around-the-internet generations. they have a lot more buzzing round in their minds and things trying to get them to buy stuff. and certainly in the uk, i'm not sure if it's exactly the same everywhere else, but the yoof are generally pretty cash-poor. there are of course the usual 1%, and the rich kids of instagram and whathaveyou, but the monaco gp (and increasingly the big party races like abu dhabi and singapore) is an exceptional tool for attracting them and influencing them.

the thing is, as it's a serious hardcore working environment it's not really compatible with the vacuous aspirational lifestyle crap that the young people look at on social media and whathaveyou. those who are interested in the series already are interested in it, and find and create their own social resources.

so yeah. on the face of it it seems ignorant, but looking past that he's not all that wrong.