[LM24] Le Mans 2014

[J Jay]

Those can turn nasty very suddenly (unfortunately I have personal experience of this ...). Here's hoping that Calado makes a full recovery.

[tux]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114435

Prospeed still may not be able to race as they still haven't had an answer as to if Crubile will be allowed to race for them

[Beetle]

I hate to be the pessimist here, but brain injuries can take unexpected turns for the worse anytime. Not wanting to appear morbid, Calado's not out of the woods yet... it may have only just begun. Keep your fingers crossed for him.

[Beetle]

Sorry for the double post, but this is necessary. I posted this to Facebook just a few minutes ago, and I want Tenthers' opinions on this...

Is Le Mans too dangerous to race at? On Friday, Loic Duval escaped what could have been serious injury. Yesterday, James Calado crashes and suffers a brain hemorrhage, as reported on Twitter today, and Bret Curtis loses consciousness after a crash and has not been cleared to race. Plus, the litany of other incidents that could have been very serious... #99 AMR, #48 Murphy Prototypes, to name a few.
What's going on?

EDIT: This phenomenon seems to have started in 2011 with the corresponding McNish and Rockenfeller crashes. In 2012, Anthony Davidson broke his back, and last year Allan Simonsen died....

What do you think?

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by tux

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114435

Prospeed still may not be able to race as they still haven't had an answer as to if Crubile will be allowed to race for them

IMO it would be a very stupid decision by the stewards if they don't let Crubile race for Prospeed.

[TheNo1F1Fan]

Disaster

[TheNo1F1Fan]

Originally Posted by airbusA346

IMO it would be a very stupid decision by the stewards if they don't let Crubile race for Prospeed.

Had to agree.

[tux]

Only realistic reason for aco to refuse would be lack of night running, if this is the case why can he not jus do daytime stints? Crubile can do qualifying laps in warm up and has been to le mans before

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Beetle

Sorry for the double post, but this is necessary. I posted this to Facebook just a few minutes ago, and I want Tenthers' opinions on this...



What do you think?

Racing is a dangerous sport. Unfortunately there are many other racetracks that have had scary incidents. The SuperGT crash at Autopolis, Tim Bergmeister, Dario Franchitti, Marcel Tiemann, Dan Wheldon(RIP). Le Mans is just in the spotlight now because it's such a big race. Once another big event draws near, we will be drawn to think again about the dangers. Their real, and their scary which is why we have the conversation all the time. Allan Simonsen's death is absolutely tragic and may he rest in peace but Le Mans is not the only place where a race car driver has passed away due to unfortunate accidents. It certainly shouldn't be called any more dangerous than a few other circuits. We can only hope it will be one of the last deaths due to motorsport.

[Beetle]

Originally Posted by Articus

Racing is a dangerous sport. Unfortunately there are many other racetracks that have had scary incidents. The SuperGT crash at Autopolis, Tim Bergmeister, Dario Franchitti, Marcel Tiemann, Dan Wheldon(RIP). Le Mans is just in the spotlight because it's such a big race. Allan Simonsen's death is absolutely tragic and may he rest in peace but Le Mans is not the only place where a race car driver has passed away due to unfortunate accidents. We can only hope it will be one of the last deaths due to motorsport.

I have to disagree on one thing. In the average race I watch, you only get one medium to large impact per weekend... by that, I mean making medium to heavy contact with the barrier. Autopolis is the first time since Bergmeister's crash that I've seen something that made me think "they may not get out of that car" in a Super GT race. Same with other series.

I think there is a growing carelessness among drivers now, not sure why. Di Grassi could have caused an injury with Leutwiler by his swerving... that's just something you don't do in a race car. And for their own safety, gentleman drivers need to undergo more rigorous training.

EDIT: Dan Wheldon's fatal crash happened at a race track that IndyCars shouldn't be racing on... they shouldn't be racing on ovals, period. And the Reliant Park circuit that ended Franchitti's career was complete crap, with the addition of poor judgment by Sato.

Just my two cents...

[Pontlieue]

One thing that needs to be taken into account at Le Mans is the amount of track time and cars. Formula 1 cars get about 6.5 hours of track time per weekend, at Le Mans, teams get 34 hours. And Le Mans has 2.5 times as many starters as Formula 1.

But still, the amount of dangerous accidents, especially at the Porsche Curves, is unaccaptable, and something needs to be done there. They need to add more runoff where its possible, and they need to add more modern barriers.

Another question is the safety of the GTE cars. While prototype drivers mostly escaped even huge accidents without major injuries over the last few years, the same unfortunately can't be said about GTE drivers. Three GTE drivers suffered injuries over the last two days.

[tux]

The common thread amongst the accidents though are unprotected concrete walls.

[chernaudi]

And this is a bit of a random post from me, but this year, I probably won't be watching the whole 24 Hours of LM this year. There's probably several reasons. After the past few days, I'm kinda anxious about more people getting injured or having near-misses with getting seriously injured or worse, I have things at home I need to help take care of, and I do have to go back to work for the first time in about 8 months Monday morning.

Physically, staying up for the whole race more or less takes a huge toll on me and I haven't been feeling good for the past few days.

So I wish you guys who wanna try and pull such things off the best of luck, and hopefully the race won't be as full of madness as practice was.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Beetle

I have to disagree on one thing. In the average race I watch, you only get one medium to large impact per weekend... by that, I mean making medium to heavy contact with the barrier. Autopolis is the first time since Bergmeister's crash that I've seen something that made me think "they may not get out of that car" in a Super GT race. Same with other series.

I think there is a growing carelessness among drivers now, not sure why. Di Grassi could have caused an injury with Leutwiler by his swerving... that's just something you don't do in a race car. And for their own safety, gentleman drivers need to undergo more rigorous training.

EDIT: Dan Wheldon's fatal crash happened at a race track that IndyCars shouldn't be racing on... they shouldn't be racing on ovals, period. And the Reliant Park circuit that ended Franchitti's career was complete crap, with the addition of poor judgment by Sato.

Just my two cents...

The first time I went to Le Mans was in 1986 and Jo Gartner was killed on the Mulsanne Straight. It was the first time I had been to a race anywhere, in which someone had been killed and it was a shock but not wanting to be glib, it is an unfortunate aspect of the sport.

EDIT: Dan Wheldon's crash was a combination of the track being unsuitable, the pack racing ethos and the car. Since the new car, the worst accident has been Dario Franchitti's, which was at Houston on a temporary street circuit; ovals, street circuits, road courses it makes no difference, drivers have been killed on them all.

[Louie Loper]

I want to know why there are still concrete walls through the Porsche curves? Why not SAFER barriers or tecpro barriers? Also in this image it seems the fencing is similar to what is used at street circuits, which I'm not sure is suitable for the speeds we see through that section.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114410

[Articus]

That's beyond me. They seem to think their are places on track that no one will crash at. But this year more than ever we've seen crashes in undexpected places. No Armco or concrete wall should be exposed anywhere.

[chernaudi]

ISC and SMI in NASCAR had a similar mentality until Jeff Gordon destoryed a few cars and quipped "I keep finding the worst places to hit these damn walls" a few years ago.

Knowing what we know now about even freak accidents and how the consequences could've been reduced, it's been strange on the ACO/FIA's part to not upgrade the barriers all along the track. I still think that the armco could pose an issue with it getting damaged like last year. And hitting concrete at over 150mph is even worse.

[Paradise City]

You can't seal it all around with the SAFER barrier but surely there are hotspots where you can draft in a section of it? I can see pressure being placed on the ACO to such a degree that one fine year they'll haul out spotlights for the corners at night.

I don't think there is any real reason why perilous accidents seem to be peaking. Maybe we've been fortunate before and these last few years are representative of where we are at in reality. I do know with saturation coverage online that an online outcry from a perilous accident that can blitz the world instantaneously will pile on far more pressure than when the media was primitive, where the sport seemed more remote and there was space for more mature reflection. The internet has this tendency to make governing bodies very jumpy and reactive.

[92scotland]

The Porsche Curves should have been altered after Gene's 2008 crash. With the speeds they are carrying through there and hearing the RLM guys talking about how terrifying it was to stand there a few years back, to have only a couple metres of grass followed by a concrete wall is unacceptable. The ACO have been talking about how they've made Tertre Rouge and the karting corner safer but haven't touched the main danger. As has been said, why not use SAFER barriers if they insist on using concrete walls? There is room beyond the walls for run off, just some scrub land and what looks like an artificial puddle, looking where Duval went off there is sand pit a few metres behind the wall! IMO Porsche Curves has always been the danger:

• Gene, 2008
• Collard, 2011
• Rebellion, 2011

And now this year... It's just negligence.

[rwintle]

Originally Posted by Louie Loper

I want to know why there are still concrete walls through the Porsche curves? Why not SAFER barriers or tecpro barriers? Also in this image it seems the fencing is similar to what is used at street circuits, which I'm not sure is suitable for the speeds we see through that section.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114410

Thought I posted this before but perhaps not... I'm also surprised at the fencing. Better street circuits don't use diagonal chain-link fencing like that. In Toronto and I believe Baltimore (and maybe others), steel 4-inch square mesh is used - it is much stronger (although there has been discussion that in Baltimore there may not have been the required braided cable holding the fence sections together, hence the fence failing dramatically).

The downsides - it's more expensive than chain-link, and has a larger mesh so bigger pieces could come through.

I've been trackside with both types and I know which I'd rather see there. But it would cost a phenomenal amount to ring even the critical bits of Le Mans with, probably.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by 92scotland

The Porsche Curves should have been altered after Gene's 2008 crash. With the speeds they are carrying through there and hearing the RLM guys talking about how terrifying it was to stand there a few years back, to have only a couple metres of grass followed by a concrete wall is unacceptable. The ACO have been talking about how they've made Tertre Rouge and the karting corner safer but haven't touched the main danger. As has been said, why not use SAFER barriers if they insist on using concrete walls? There is room beyond the walls for run off, just some scrub land and what looks like an artificial puddle, looking where Duval went off there is sand pit a few metres behind the wall! IMO Porsche Curves has always been the danger:

• Gene, 2008
• Collard, 2011
• Rebellion, 2011

And now this year... It's just negligence.

Why not a deep gravel trap, or does that go against the ACO's ethos?

[EricS]

I didn't realize the exit of second left hander had zero run-off. No kerbs even. Need to add something there as its too easy to drop a wheel onto slippery grass, which leads to the righthander where Duval ended up.

[Ferrari333SP]

Will this be the official race thread?

[dbagtbag]

Originally Posted by Ferrari333SP

Will this be the official race thread?

It says Le Mans 2014

[Beetle]

Originally Posted by Ferrari333SP

Will this be the official race thread?

Your answer from the O.P.:

Originally Posted by Beetle

Welcome to the 2014 24 Hours of Le Mans superthread! Glad you could join us. Here, you will be able to find valuable information on everything going on at Le Mans this year, from Test Day to the main event from 14-15 June. The 24 Hours of Le Mans (24 Heures du Mans, as it is known in France) holds a very special place in every motorsport fan's heart, so I thought it deserved a thread that goes far beyond that of my typical FIA WEC threads.