New Race Personal Record Card

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by Richard Duvall

2. Whilst I can see that having a universal card avoids the problem of trying to decide who should have what card, maybe there have been too many compromises to achieve a “one size fits all” solution.

On balance, I think that separate cards for each duty should have been produced. This would introduce an element of career development as each marshal would need to request the appropriate record card.

as i understand it as you mean "roles" we'd be going in the wrong direction if there was track, flag, pc, io then there's 1 grade per flag/io/ book, 2 per pc book and the rest all just track grades so it would make the scheme worse although it is another solution to the nice thick, comprehensive, costly books as they look at the moment, untested in the field of battle! cadet/student-trainee, trainee-tra, tra-exp exp-flag. for the track role book see what i mean, and thats half the list for one of 5 disciplines...

p.s id be suprised if the system was changed now with massive cost to the msa, even if we suggest the best ideas in the world and the cards get changed itd be a crying shame if all the books we have now or the same on es we are going to get for the 2013 season would go in the bins at training day because of misprints, its going to stay like this for years, maybe with loads of odd pieces of plain a4 added in for good measure!

[Richard Duvall]

I fully agree that it is impracticable to back-track now! Perhaps the new system should be been subjected to wider consultation before being implemented.

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by Richard Duvall

I fully agree that it is impracticable to back-track now! Perhaps the new system should be been subjected to wider consultation before being implemented.

completely and utterly hit the nail on the head entirely, then this thread would be filled entirely with "oh well done the msa with the new prc's, well done", instead of "this is how this should be done, that's how this could be changed" we found ourselves with the old system and what we're engaging in now,

though saying that i like many others appreciate the work Chris H and co. is surely doing everything in his power pulling the strings to make this system work.

i think its a good book which i received this morning, saying that though im only a track grade marshal!

[snoz wanger]

Just received mine.......all i can say is.......Great job to MSA!, VERY PROFESSIONAL, NICE LAYOUT, FAR MORE SUITED TO THE JOB THAN THE OLD CARD!....Ill shut up now................

[sunny.traveller]

I know that a lot of work has gone into the new PRC but just one little quibble - in the section for track to experienced track the space for comments is only 4mm x 49mm. (& I had to put on my reading glasses to measure it!) I know we have some fantastically talented, dedicated & supportive post chiefs out there but I'm not sure that's room for anything, even on an uneventful day.
I think I may photocopy page 6 and reprint at A5 size (the PRC is A6) so there is space for me to pre-fill all the boring bits and room for actual comments.

[Terrible-Tones]

Just received the new PRC

On the whole I think it is very good. it makes clear the Upgrade path and I like that the comments are actually associated directly with the actual day recorded (though the box is perhaps a bit small for many meaningful comments?) - this makes utter sense to me. It also looks professional and is nicely finished. I really like the plastic card (shame the photo is awful in my case)

Like most on here my quibble is that there is nowhere to record attendance sigs that are not directly related to upgrade (for those of us that want to wait a couple of years and do many more meetings than the requirement for upgrade - which I believe to be the "norm" in marshaling circles). However I understand that there will be a "continuation sheet" online that you can download and print? Chris (H) can you let us know where that will be?

I guess the other option has already been mentioned on here, which is to produce your own on Excel or similar to do the same. Presumably it would be OK to ask a PC or Acting PC to sign a home made form like that?

I absolutely applaud the attempt to address some of the issues - and I think this goes someway to doing so - so well done those who actually spent their time doing this. Thank you.

However, constructive critisism -

Personally I still think the number of required sigs between Marshal and Experienced Marshal is still too low, going from 15 to 18. My belief is that it should be nearer 30 or perhaps even more.

Also as someone else has said - I don't really think there was enough consultation with the guys on the ground - I believe this should have been driven from the bottom up, not the other way around.

Still, a big thank you to those who have given up their own time trying to fix it.

[wensleydale]

If you're not collecting signatures for an upgrade surely it doesn't matter which section of the booklet is filled in. There are plenty of sections that don't have a duty prefilled that can be used.

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by sunny.traveller

I know that a lot of work has gone into the new PRC but just one little quibble - in the section for track to experienced track the space for comments is only 4mm x 49mm. (& I had to put on my reading glasses to measure it!) I know we have some fantastically talented, dedicated & supportive post chiefs out there but I'm not sure that's room for anything, even on an uneventful day.
I think I may photocopy page 6 and reprint at A5 size (the PRC is A6) so there is space for me to pre-fill all the boring bits and room for actual comments.

yes i noticed that, there's barely room even for 4 to the point words, and thats when the words are barely readible.

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by Terrible-Tones

Personally I still think the number of required sigs between Marshal and Experienced Marshal is still too low, going from 15 to 18. My belief is that it should be nearer 30 or perhaps even more.

as good as it is slowing the progress of signature chasers i believe 30 would be too much a shock to the system and would put some off from progressing as a route to the top would be too long and dragged out! which is what we want but anyway the new requirement is just right, thankfully the grading scheme is easier to change than the books. in the years to come, the new scheme will hopefully in time have people warm to it and maybe we'll be happy with it one day!

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by SouthportFC Fan

Will we be able to have a backup barcode transfer printed onto our foreheads (or scanner) just in case we misplace or forget our MSA issued documents ?

The barcode will be tattood onto your bottom - that way it will also register every time you go over the wall to an incident and can be used to prove you have actually gained enough experience for your upgrade...

Quite a lot of marshalling in this country goes on at venues which aren't the major circuits. If this is a genuine suggestion and goes ahead I'm sure plans are in place to cover all of those autograss, sprint, rally stages, etc, etc?

[Chris Hobson]

Let me bring a modicum of fact to this discussion on bar codes.

The technology now exists to enable the use of bar code readers at sign on, with a bar code printed on the marshals' plastic registration card. However - this is only at discussion stage at present. As far as I am aware, no plans have yet been put in place for a project to deliver this to the venues.

The hope is that it will be cheap and portable enough to be used at all venues for all types of motorsport. I would envisage a trial or pilot will be carried out first and then rolled out depending on the results. Timescale? Nothing set yet, but don't expect anything before end 2013 - we need to get the plastic registration cards correct and in full use first.

So please do not start having bar codes tattooed on your backsides (or anywhere else) yet!

Let's allow the MSA to walk before they try to run!

[Steven Humphrey]

Originally Posted by NewYankee01

i believe 30 would be too much a shock to the system and would put some off from progressing as a route to the top would be too long and dragged out!

30 days works out at no more than 2 years, even for people like myself who have a young family & have to work some weekends. That is about the right timescale to go from track to experienced, in my opinion and is about where I am at now & i'll be looking to upgrade in the new season.

As for the new PRCs - still waiting for mine so can't comment!

[m1fcf]

In my opinion, 30 days is about right for those who are actively seeking upgrades (will enforce a longer time period = more experience) and actually, for those who 'upgrade by accident' (i.e. just go along to marshal, and then find that well, they have 30 days and may as well upgrade)

For those who have no interest in upgrading, then whether it is 20, 25, 30 or even 100, it makes no difference.

[Terrible-Tones]

Originally Posted by Steven Humphrey

As for the new PRCs - still waiting for mine so can't comment!

Shouldn't that read....

"As for the new GHD's - still waiting for mine so can't comment!"

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Steven Humphrey

30 days works out at no more than 2 years

It can also work out at little more than 10 weeks. I did 5 3-day meetings in a row this year.

Time period aside, 30 days can basically be done in 10 meetings, whether it's back to back, or across 3 or 4 seasons. As I've previously said to Chris, IMHO, this is not enough. I did upwards of 80 days, before I was comfortable in going for Experienced, and I don't consider myself to be a slow learner. Even now, with hindsight and a further 100+ days experience, I'm not entirely convinced that I didn't rush it a little, for the sake of.

While I imagine the assessment is more rigorous, in principle, someone in my position, could quite probably have gone for PC by now if they were so inclined to "badge chase"

[Paul Mann]

Well said Chris

[lucky scarf]

I think the small increase in days required should be welcomed before being eligible for seeking an upgrade. If people think they have the right experience and knowledge for an upgrade after the minimum of events then surely the actual assessment should identify those who are ready or those who may benefit from a few more meetings at their current level. Could it be that the actual number of events will always be a red herring and the important issue is whether the individual is thoroughly assessed to see whether they meet the higher criteria regardless of doing 10, 15 or 50 days at their current level. Some will be capable after the minimum whilst some may not even after doing 50. Just a thought...... and retreats to a sensible distance.

In reality my experiences from colleagues going for upgrades this year is that the minimum number of events is only a guide with the majority seeking an upgrade after doing around double the events.

Can I also add my thanks to all those who work hard and give up their time to help our lot as marshals.

[Matthews Dad]

Originally Posted by Chris Hobson

Let me bring a modicum of fact to this discussion on bar codes.
As far as I am aware, no plans have yet been put in place for a project to deliver this to the venues.
Let's allow the MSA to walk before they try to run!

Ok so judicious editing of Chris's post, but having done Wales rally GB for the first time in many years this year, their sign on process was based upon a pre printed sign on sheet with an individual bar code, downloaded from a dedicated web site (Rally Stage team) and wet ink signed by the marshal (and in case of juniors backed up by the requiste approproate adult signature and indemnity) and then scanned by the pre printed bar code at the sign on location in the middle of a welsh forest at o'silly oclock, it worked in my case so the technology is their but i beleive we would all still need to physically sign a bit of paper to say we understood the risks and the liability of the parties involved as we do at sign on now,


unless of course we went to retina scans or fingerprint recognition instead of individual signatures

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Chris Hobson

So please do not start having bar codes tattooed on your backsides (or anywhere else) yet!

Impractical, as the average marshal expands over the years so the spacing between the bars will widen and give a false reading.

Tattooing it in other places can have the opposite problem

[numbersix]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Impractical, as the average marshal expands over the years so the spacing between the bars will widen and give a false reading.

Tattooing it in other places can have the opposite problem

...So true...

[pauln]

Barcodes are of course increasingly an obsolescent technology.

Subcutaneous RFID anyone?

[m1fcf]

<weak TV reference>
with all this talk of numbers and barcodes instead of names, I am surprised that Numbersix hasnt run around shouting "I am *not* a number"
</weak TV reference>

Carry on....nothing to see here...

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by Terrible-Tones

Shouldn't that read....

"As for the new GHD's - still waiting for mine so can't comment!"

hahaha

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by pauln

Barcodes are of course increasingly an obsolescent technology.

Subcutaneous RFID anyone?

come again?

[pauln]

The sort of identity chip that's used with pets.

I jest (no really, I'm not serious here)