Starting racing

[Suze]

Anita please clear PMs....

[tristancliffe]

Originally Posted by James_1

Thanks for all of the responses. I have decided that instead of going straight into racing I am going to have a look at doing some sprints next season (hopefully) so that I have time to build up experience and get the car prepared over a longer period of time so that I will be in a slighter better position when I do start racing. I intent to get a car that will be eligible for the SEMSEC Stock Challenge. I have got another question though; I have read that I only need a £30 non-race license rather than a full cat B national. Is there any way I can get any track time in between meets without a road license with either? Will I have to go back and spend the full £300 when I finish the season to get a race one if I get a non-race license and is it worth the extra money to get the track time/tuition?

Road licence = track days in road cars, and you'd probably be able to get some sort of racing tuition as well, but I reckon it'd be worth doing a season of racing before getting tuition.
£30 Non-Race B licence = sprints/hillclimbs
~£350 Race B licence = races, test days

Yes, you'll have to buy the novice starter pack, and do an ARDS day. Depending on your age you might have to have a medical (>18 years, ~£60 varying with GP).

I did a few sprints last year, to work out what competative track driving was all about. Then I did my ARDS over the winter and got my Race B licence. Then I did a seasons racing with Monoposto. Now I'm considering some tuition, before a more competative 2008. I learnt so much in the sprints and first racing EVERY race that tuition would be wasted really.

[James_1]

So without a race license there is no way I can get any practice other than actually driving in the sprint. That could prove interesting as I've never had to change gear while driving at any speed! I'm guessing there is no other way I can get some track time?

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by James_1

So without a race license there is no way I can get any practice other than actually driving in the sprint. That could prove interesting as I've never had to change gear while driving at any speed! I'm guessing there is no other way I can get some track time?

You can hire the track yourself but that doesn't fit with your budget!

The trouble is that you have no experience and potentially this makes you a danger to others so, not unreasonably IMO, those that run trackdays are very keen on you playing with them.

TBH in your position with budget being an issue and your age, I'd buckly down and save your money towards driving lessons for your road licence, then you can do trackdays on that licence to get some experience and then you'll be fully mobile and able to get to race circuits independently when you start racing.

[graeme]

Originally Posted by James_1

So without a race license there is no way I can get any practice other than actually driving in the sprint. That could prove interesting as I've never had to change gear while driving at any speed! I'm guessing there is no other way I can get some track time?

You can test at some circuits with a non-race Nat B. Three Sisters in Wigan is one (but perhaps a little far for you) and Curbourgh sprint course near Lichfield (again probably too far). IIRC Mallory let you test with a non-race licence (though Wed mornings for a novice driver maybe too much at this stage )?? I'd guess Llandow in South Wales as well. Basically, purpose built sprint (not race) tracks will probably let you out. Nearer you, Lydden holds sprints, so maybe worth talking to them to see if they'll let you out on track.

Might be worth speaking to some trackday organisers to see if they will let you out without a road licence (MSVR circuits are definately out though). Or a call to SaxMax/Ginetta Jr/T-Car organisers to see if you could join in on one of their test days???

[Chris Y]

Find a disused or semi-disused airfield somewhere near you and ask them if you can practice driving there.

That's what I did when I was 16

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by graeme

Might be worth speaking to some trackday organisers to see if they will let you out without a road licence (MSVR circuits are definately out though). Or a call to SaxMax/Ginetta Jr/T-Car organisers to see if you could join in on one of their test days???

I think the difficulty for James is that he has NEITHER road nor race licence. Track sessions will either be run under trackday insurance where a road licence is needed or under race insurance where a race licence is needed. Having neither of these doesn't make James a great prospect.

As Chris says, mainly most of us found places to get some experience

[deccerz77]

Originally Posted by James_1

And test days are the same? Out of interest, how do T-car and Saxmax drivers get any practice?
I am 16 in November but T-Cars are too expensive and Saxmax appear to have a bit of a reputation for red flags.

Hello Gordon, I've been trying to convince him for months but he won't budge! It looks like I'm going to have to fund it pretty much myself so I'm going to do it progressively. I'm sure I could reach the peddles the Anglebox with a lot of cushions on the seat; its keeping the thing on the road that may prove more difficult!
Oh, I heard something out your gearbox going at Spa, what happened?

There we go again! Saxmax does not have a red flag like every race, we have only had 3 red flags out of the 10 races avalable, 2 of which are where a mechanical fault with someone car has arrisen. Just last Saturday was the Junior Festival and Saxmax had no red flags, and the racing was clean. The junior ginneta champ however had a red flag in almost every practice session and race. But yet they get to go on the toca series??

[James_1]

Originally Posted by Chris Y

Find a disused or semi-disused airfield somewhere near you and ask them if you can practice driving there.

That's what I did when I was 16

I have been looking out for one but I can't find any in the southeast. Anyone know one?

Originally Posted by deccerz77

There we go again! Saxmax does not have a red flag like every race, we have only had 3 red flags out of the 10 races avalable, 2 of which are where a mechanical fault with someone car has arrisen. Just last Saturday was the Junior Festival and Saxmax had no red flags, and the racing was clean. The junior ginneta champ however had a red flag in almost every practice session and race. But yet they get to go on the toca series??

Sorry! I was only repeating what I had been told/had read. How do you get any practice in by the way?

[GORDON STREETER]

James . Perhaps I'll chat Bob D up and I'll supply an mot failure car, and see if we can use one of his fields to thrash round to get you used to controlling a car. Its a safer option as you can learn about under/over steer at lower speeds pretty quick and there's nothing to hit, apart from the odd deer !!!!

[James_1]

You have a PM Gordon

[crofty]

Just got/getting my licence, the costs I paid were:
go racing pack 40
medical 100-125 (can be cheaper, but I'd just moved to the area and didn't know!)
ARDS most places wanted 250 for the test. I did the full day course & test at silverstone for 365. I think that was good value, but 'Stone has a reputation of harsh marking. 9 out of 23 failed when I was there.
send away for licence 40.
Hope that's useful.

As far as helmets go, I really can't stress enough geting a new one. They are designed to break instead of your head, so you don't know what damage it hs, after a knock, the outer shell can pop back into place, but the protective lining stays compressed. any questions feel free to ask me.

[AU N EGL]

Patients Grasshopper Patients.


Get your road license first, a job and save like crazy.

[James_1]

Originally Posted by crofty

Just got/getting my licence, the costs I paid were:
go racing pack 40
medical 100-125 (can be cheaper, but I'd just moved to the area and didn't know!)
ARDS most places wanted 250 for the test. I did the full day course & test at silverstone for 365. I think that was good value, but 'Stone has a reputation of harsh marking. 9 out of 23 failed when I was there.
send away for licence 40.
Hope that's useful.

As far as helmets go, I really can't stress enough geting a new one. They are designed to break instead of your head, so you don't know what damage it hs, after a knock, the outer shell can pop back into place, but the protective lining stays compressed. any questions feel free to ask me.

Thanks. I don't think I'll be doing an ARDS then, I'll just send off for a Non-race licence instead. It seems that one way or another I should be able to get some practice in. Don't worry, I won't be getting a used helmet having read up on them. It really isn't worth the risk IMO.

[Colin McKay]

James,

It seems too obvious, but have you thought about karting? I did a few seasons in 2-strokes to see if I was any good before spending huge sums on historic racing. You don't need a road licence to compete in very quick machinery and you will learn more than you can imagine at a fraction of the cost. I've just completed my first hugely enjoyable season in saloons and although I've yet to finish in the front half of the grid, without my karting experience I would have wasted a fortune just keeping up with the backmarkers.

[James_1]

I have looked into it but all the series I've found come across as being very expensive. Which series did you do as the ones I've found all require at least £1000 on the kart alone.

[kelvin88]

What about Club 100?

[mountainstar]

Having been though all this in recent years when I was 18-22 and looking at all the mistakes I made trying to get started in motorsport I would say:

1. Don't bother with racing cars or licences when starting. Takes up logistical and financial resources most young people don't have.
2. Go karting. Yes some people are trying to reinvent the wheel by spending massive sums, but karting distills everything down to the basics- engine, tires, chassis, seat, steering wheel and pedals and little else. I think bang for the buck here can't be beat.
3. Everything is expensive. Get used to it. I just bought a new helmet and soon I'll get a new suit and gear, which will cost what some people earn in a month.(Fortunately I write it off as a business expense). I found out when I was young, whatever I started I couldn't finish because I didn't have the money to see it though. Save, save, save. Get better jobs, start your own business.
4. Another option would be to acquire as much experience as possible by the age of 20, 21 and then start working towards being a race instructor. Tracktime, public speaking skills, vehicle dynamic theory and study, meeting like minded people and a job are all assets that come from this.

[Austinspace75]

Originally Posted by James_1

I have looked into it but all the series I've found come across as being very expensive. Which series did you do as the ones I've found all require at least £1000 on the kart alone.

Karting isn't as cheap as its made out to be as you say. I did a bit before moving onto sprints and then full circuit racing. I managed to reduce the initial outlay cost by hiring an engine rather than buying one outright. Now, this was during the TKM heyday, when bolting the engine in was literally a 5 minute job so the prep guy just turned up on the day and did it for me, as his son and other customers would be racing aswell (this brought alot of competitive benefits aswell because this guy knew what sprocket to run and what revs I was hitting - so if the engine blew it was never my fault and he would simply drop in another!) Anyway, I don't know whether this goes on now due to the more involved installation of the modern water cooled, self-start Rotax engines but its worth looking into. That way, you only have to buy the chassis, tyres and support equipment and you get alot of help from the people that know.
Karting did alot for me on several levels, but was always something that I'd REALLY wanted to have a go at. Not everyone feels like this about karts though, so unless you really fancy it you may aswell put your effort into get straight into cars and sprinting. Its not a huge progression financially.

Sprinting is easy to get started in and great fun - if a little frustrating sometimes cos you don't really get much track time for your money. But, in some ways this adds to the challenge because it trains you get the most out of every second at the wheel WITHOUT binning it! - something I've noticed I've taken to circuit racing and got a huge benefit from. I think it can make you a very 'conscious while fast' sort of a driver and that's ALWAYS a good thing.

Best of luck, keep plugging in as many avenues as possible and something will definitely drop out from somewhere.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by kelvin88

What about Club 100?

http://www.club100.co.uk/

Looks like a fantasic bargain.

[JohnD]

James,
No use to you until you can get your licence but for a series designed as low cost racing, take a look at 750MC Stock Hatch. If you want to be a constructor too, their Locost series.

Meanwhile Club 100 - wow! wish I'd known about that years ago, or it had existed. £145 a race, arrive and drive? It's an ideal introduction to any circuit based motorsport!

JOhn

[James_1]

That is basically what I'm aiming to do, only in the SEMSEC version which is closer as my dad won't go outside the southeast towing a car (and he isn't massively keen about that). I wanted to start with sprints so I can build up experiance and get the car fully specced up over a peroid of time rather than having to splash out on all of the stuff needed to go racing (roll cage, suspension etc).
The Club 100 looks pretty fantastic but unfortuntly the distance makes it difficult, is there a southeast only budget kart series?
Basically, I would much rather race cars than karts.

[BertMk2]

If you're going to do SEMSEC then it's well worth doing a track day at Lydden and have a session with Bill Richards (the circuit instructor). He knows Lydden inside out and will be able to help with lines etc.

[AU N EGL]

Do not the Racing UK sanctioning organizations have minimum requirements for an individual to apply for a racing license?

In the US the SCCA has a minimum of a regular road lic, 16 years old with parental consent or 18 years old. Plus a minimum of two Driving schools weekends with in car instructors , then allowed to take the Lic. school, which is again two separate weekends.

NASA is also regular road lic, 16 years old with parental consent IF the parent is ALSO a NASA race lic holder or 18 years old. Highly advised that 10 weekend driving ( High Performance Driving Schools - Not open track days) but two HPDEs are minimum with in car instructors be take before the Competition Lic school, which is three days.

Auto-X, time trials and hill climbs are much the same requirements.

[graeme]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Do not the Racing UK sanctioning organizations have minimum requirements for an individual to apply for a racing license?

Nope - don't need a road licence and I think minimium age for racing is 16 (plus we have a few youngster race series). Then need to be identify some flags and drive 'round a circuit for 10 minutes without crashing.

For sprints and hillclimbs you just need £25 and say your eyesight is good enough to see a flag