Oran Park F3 incident (originally 'Welcome to the real world Garth')

[Trevor]

Why then, the inaction by the Series sanctioning body?

I bet there is some action on this now. Our friends at CAMS love reading the posts on 10-10ths, don't ya fella's?

[Muznik]

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

Why then, the inaction by the Series sanctioning body?

I bet there is some action on this now. Our friends at CAMS love reading the posts on 10-10ths, don't ya fella's?

So now you are agreeing that Garth has done the right thing ?!?

Now I will state upfront that I have no inside knowledge of all the details but reading between the lines here, it would appear that these concerns had been raised before but fell on deaf ears.

It comes down to a case of take it or leave it. Now from what I gather you are saying the drivers should have left it. In hindsight you are probably right!

Its not always that simple, but yes maybe it should be. With the aid of a time machine im sure the drivers involved would go back and make a bigger stand over the issue and perhaps not take to the track on the Friday.

However until the said time machine is invented that isnt an option. So when a member of the press approaches GT for his opinion he gives it in the hope someone will now give the problem more consideration.

You then come out and bag him for it !

To me it seems that you & GT both agree its black not white but you want to argue that its a darker shade of black.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Malfunction Junction

Cranker, if Garth drove a Ford, GTR Magic would have taken the chance to stick in the boot.

Not really... being part of the Walkinshaw Performance mafia doesnt preclude you from spending your own money funding your own racing... putting something back into the sport.... so not all bad

The issues around private practice are significant. Shared tracks with cars with light and day performance capabilities with drivers similarly diverse will always be a recipe for disaster... unless there is a risk management plan in place, and professional people on the ground to sort the control....

It would be different if it were a private test day or similar, but you could still have the same accident then too.........

[NewsStalker]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

The issue here is how to get officials or more officials on Friday. If the series organisers could they would. But how it is possible for series that everyone knows is not flush with $$$$ raise officialdom numbers on Fridays.

Without $$$$, that no one has how can this target be reached. You can scream as loud as you want, even v8 drivers but untill someone or company can step up support officialdom on a Friday, this discussion isnt going anywhere fast

The FIRST step, then, is to remove the requirement from the F3 series regs for the Friday fall back day. This way there is no pressure on anyone - circuit, officials, teams or drivers - to even take part in any Friday testing. Remove this pressure and the teams can do what they should be using Friday for - setup, testing etc - they would not then be pushing as hard as they can to set a time which *may* be needed in case the Sat is a wash out.

The second step is for the circuit operator to restrict the day to ONLY those vehicles running during the following two days. Yes - I can hear the screams now - 'Why can't we run', 'this makes it a de facto 3 day meeting' - and the answer to the last scream is yes, it does BUT (and this won't solve the problem that happened at OP) by firstly ensuring the day IS a setup and tune day not a psuedo-qualifying day, and having less cars at the track (in theory that is) the 'sudden rush' after a session is stopped may be averted.

I say 'may' because we all know what race car drivers are like when the green flag is shown...

[davester]

Maybe the answer here for "non-event" national category test/tune days is for the team/teams to provide one yellow flag marshall at each flag point.

It's not fool proof, but a significant and simple solution to what happened at OP.

[Sequel]

Originally Posted by NewsStalker

The FIRST step, then, is to remove the requirement from the F3 series regs for the Friday fall back day. This way there is no pressure on anyone - circuit, officials, teams or drivers - to even take part in any Friday testing. Remove this pressure and the teams can do what they should be using Friday for - setup, testing etc - they would not then be pushing as hard as they can to set a time which *may* be needed in case the Sat is a wash out

Friday is not a "fall back" day. The F3 regs desribe it as a "Pre Event Practice Day" which consists of scruitineering and 2 x 30 min "Non-Qualifying" sessions. There is no mention of wash outs or fall back days. If for some reason a driver fails to completes 3 laps and/or get within 110% of the pole time on the Saturday, they can apply to the stewards of the meeting to let them start the race (as in any championship). They must convince the stewards they are capable of beating the 110% benchmark, have track knowledge and are safe to be let on the track. One way to do this is to present the time they set on the Friday, but another way would be to present the time they set the year before, the qualyfing times from any previous races where they are up the front, etc.

Originally Posted by NewsStalker

The second step is for the circuit operator to restrict the day to ONLY those vehicles running during the following two days.

That is how the Fridays have been run for the last couple of years. As has been previously posted, Friday at OP saw a schedule handed out to "competitors" listing each "categories" time slots. Trucks have sessions, commodore cup had sessions, Biante cars had session etc.

[NewsStalker]

To quote from Garth's earlier post:

As part of F3's sporting regs, the Friday sessions are part of the race meeting, therefore have regulatory purpose, ie if Qualifying is rained out on Saturday, they can use Friday practice results to make a grid, but that is another story for another day....

So who's right and who's wrong? My understanding that what Garth stated has been the case for a number of years.

That is how the Fridays have been run for the last couple of years. As has been previously posted, Friday at OP saw a schedule handed out to "competitors" listing each "categories" time slots. Trucks have sessions, commodore cup had sessions, Biante cars had session etc.

I am saying this in relation to ALL Firday 'private practice' days held before meetings - these days are NOT currently restricted to competitors from the Sat/Sun competition - if they were it would no longer be an open private practice day (the NSW State Championship meetings are a good example of this where the day is open to anyone who pays the track fee. Sure, 90% of the cars are also entered on the weekend, but not all.

The only reason tracks hand out these schedules (which are always subject to cbeing changed onthe day if insufficient cars take to the track in any of the designated categories) is to stop open wheelers and sedans going out together; to stop trucks and minis being onthe track together - IOW - to keep apart categories which could, conceivably, trip over each other.

[NewsStalker]

Garth, it is a legitimate claim for you to expect sufficient officials to operate the track at a reasonable level of safety. You have, after all, entered a contract with the promoter which in essence says you will turn up and race if you provide a track, in accordance with the rules. I cant help but wonder with the minimal track manning, how many signed on officials were sitting in race control, or in recovery vehicles, when they perhaps could have been used to man a point?????? I have no inside information, but just curious to know

But this is where there is a problem - they do NOT have a contract with the promoter for the Friday - it is only mentioned in their own series regulations which CAMS manages and, therefore, should have taken into account when a TWO day permit was issued (their series regulations should require a THREE day permit) - then the problem of manning wouldn't arise - if there were the people to man the points, then the session simply does not go ahead. Full stop.

But under the terms you sign on for on a Private Practice day, you absolve the track of all responsibility particularly in relation to flag points (whether these T&C's are actually valid have not, AFAIK, been tested in any law suit - maybe this will be needed to clarify the whole situation...)

[Woolley]

The discussion of the Oran Park practice incident has now been split into marshal-specific bits and this discussion of the actual incident. Along the way, some bits will have gone missing, been edited or may just not make sense anymore. Apologies for any oddities that have resulted, I've attempted to keep the discussion to topic.

Continue now, but please keep it civil and beware of posting as fact something that you only think you know! Undoubtedly some erroneous posts will have been left behind.

Thank you all for your patience and co-operation.

[nomad_n]

Just reading this forum with interest... GT does have a point in the fact why isn't there any officals trackside for the friday... At Ruapuna raceway we use to get all teams to supply on person for the flag point if we didn't have enough flaggies.... Not only does this give the teams a better understanding of the rules but also what we do out on the flag point.

Would this have saved the incident from happening who knows, but at least there wouldve have been a warning for the on coming drivers

[Trevor]

Bloody good point, don't if they would ever get thepeope to do it, and if **** did happen there would always be an argument about training/experience, etc.

[fomoco]

After eading and understanding the Pro's and Con's, Gt's call for Marshalls on fridays, Others suggest a member from each team,(works in Historics), sounds good.

Downfall for Gt's suggestion: Volunteer Marshalls work, on average we get 20 annual leave days a year. Officiate at one of these requires 5 days leave, GP,Indy,Bathurst. I do friday for the V8's, An annual leave day, Indy 3 leave days(QLD based), if I go to Melb, 5 days annual leave. Super bikes coming up another two days annual leave. Plus associated costs.
Nice Idea GT, but I'm soon running out of leave days.

Team MEmbers man Points: Perfect, they can relay information on how the car handles, what the car is doing, rotate team members through the points.

Aren't we all motorsport enthusiasts?

[davester]

Originally Posted by davester

Maybe the answer here for "non-event" national category test/tune days is for the team/teams to provide one yellow flag marshall at each flag point.

It's not fool proof, but a significant and simple solution to what happened at OP.

Thanks fomoco for the support here. It's something we'll implement voluntarily at our next test day. If we need to call out for some experienced flaggies, we'll even pay them. Sometimes what might appear overkill 99% of the time, pays off big time 1% of the time.

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by fomoco

Volunteer Marshalls work, on average we get 20 annual leave days a year.

I'm lucky in that by working longer days I get a day off every fortnight (RDO) however I've got two events mid year (one interstate) on consecutive weekends which will involve taking two of my four weeks annual leave to do it.

Having flexible RDO's means I can move them around within the pay period but Sandown will involve a day off either side of the event for set up and pack up.

Not everyone is that lucky.

[Trevor]

Sorry everyone, Wolley has split this thread into a F3 Incident and an Officials thread, could you please post all your comments regarding officials here please.