Dyson to Switch to LMP2 with Porsches???

[sh1989]

We have to see if there are going to be any european custumers. But i would say as off right now there wont be any Porsche RS Spyder at Le Mans next year.
I think Porsche would only support an effort if they are 100% sure that the RS Spyder would finish. And after the problems they had this year in Sebring the probably just want another season to develop the new Evo.

But only time will tell us what is going to happen with a Porsche in Le Mans.

But i am still hoping for a P1 Porsche.

[dedalus5150]

Originally Posted by sh1989

But i am still hoping for a P1 Porsche.

Until ACO regulations make it possible for petrol-powered cars to compete fairly with diesels (at least in Porsche's view) they will not field a P1 entry.

[sh1989]

Originally Posted by dedalus5150

Until ACO regulations make it possible for petrol-powered cars to compete fairly with diesels (at least in Porsche's view) they will not field a P1 entry.

Thats true, but i would say if Peugeot and Audi are going to dominate the LMS and Le Mans the ACO has to think about to revise the balance between petrol-powered and diesel-powered.

[Hammerdown]

Originally Posted by dedalus5150

Until ACO regulations make it possible for petrol-powered cars to compete fairly with diesels (at least in Porsche's view) they will not field a P1 entry.

You don't think Porsche could beat the R10 if they wanted to? It wouldn't be that hard to turn the Spyder into P1 (a couple of turbos, some bigger wheels and tyres and some ballast and hey presto!), but Audi need to have their marketing glory for a couple of years before Porsche are allowed to have another go!

[KA]

Maybe they don't have to revise the balance between petrol and diesel-or at least not just yet..

If they've got 2 manufacturers fighting it out for the win, they maybe think they can afford to live with that situation at least for a while. The acid test might not come until the LMP1 privateers start to bail out or drop down to LMP2 en masse...

[Carousel]

Originally Posted by Hammerdown

You don't think Porsche could beat the R10 if they wanted to?

As the rules read now? No.

[chewymonster]

You will never get completely fair performance with two different engine types. Last year in the ALMS the GASOLINE powered vehicles were much quicker than the R10 (later part of the year, because of the "performance adjustments [gasoline powered P1s running 143 pounds lighter than the R10]) If Porsche entered and beat the R10, one could say that the rules favored gasoline powered vehicles and vice versa until we all are racing fuel cell powered vehicles.

[Adam43]

We should perhaps steer clear of the rules discussion as it is going on in many other threads.

It is interesting that Dyson have changed classes. I didn't see coming, but perhaps it shouldn't surprise with their history. They have got their hands on a great car. I'm glad they are one of the first to get a customer car.

When will they get it?

[chernaudi]

Well I did kinda see this one. Where does Dyson have all their ALMS wins, with the exception of 3, they're all in the LMP2( or LMP675 at the time). They feel that the Lola LMP cars are junk right now, and they want to win races, at least in class.

[chewymonster]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

We should perhaps steer clear of the rules discussion as it is going on in many other threads.

It is interesting that Dyson have changed classes. I didn't see coming, but perhaps it shouldn't surprise with their history. They have got their hands on a great car. I'm glad they are one of the first to get a customer car.

When will they get it?

One before January 22nd (Sebring Winter test) and the other in February.

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Well I did kinda see this one. Where does Dyson have all their ALMS wins, with the exception of 3, they're all in the LMP2( or LMP675 at the time). They feel that the Lola LMP cars are junk right now, and they want to win races, at least in class.

I don't quite get this statement. They used to run the Riley and Scott in the early days of the ALMS. And LMP675 was a secondary route to overall wins, which is different from P2. They have run for overall wins when they had the 962.

Now with that said, I do recall some people thinking that Dyson could run a RS Spyder when the program was announced. Mainly due to their past connection with Porsche.

[jhansen]

One more thought, I can't wait to see the RS Spyder in Dyson racing white and blue. That should be a looker!

[dedalus5150]

Originally Posted by jhansen

One more thought, I can't wait to see the RS Spyder in Dyson racing white and blue. That should be a looker!

Amen to that! It will look much, much better than that nasty yellow DHL livery...

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

You will never get completely fair performance with two different engine types. Last year in the ALMS the GASOLINE powered vehicles were much quicker than the R10 (later part of the year, because of the "performance adjustments [gasoline powered P1s running 143 pounds lighter than the R10]).

Right, the adjustments. That's what the ACO declined to do, though, where the ALMS felt they had to.

Besides, with the diesels, there's a much more direct tradeoff between economy and power - so they were hardly pushing the power envelope while the gasoline P1s were at their peak power. Witness that they just hung with the lead pack at Laguna, and then went almost an extra 30% distance at the end while the others had to pit.

Impressive use of the technology as allowed. I admire Audi's work, for sure - I just wish that the advantage given to the developing technology wasn't quite as obvious. As Chris said when talking about this switch, Dyson Racing just wants a chance to win or lose on the team's merit - hence the switch to the class where parity of opportunity is a little better defined.

[AU N EGL]

Now only if P1 cars could run a petrol / gasoline powered 7 liter. Rember the Corvette 427ci UNrestricted, is susupected ( not tested) of 900 BHP.

and Porsches old flat 12 twin( bi) turbo 6 liter? 1100-1200 bhp
Both of those are some serious ponies that would put the Audi diesel to shame.

[eddsc]

Following up Paul's post - do you remember how Johansson blew by McNish on lap 1/2 at PLM? From memory, the Scot blamed the disparity in weight. But does 65 kg make that much difference?

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by eddsc

Following up Paul's post - do you remember how Johansson blew by McNish on lap 1/2 at PLM? From memory, the Scot blamed the disparity in weight. But does 65 kg make that much difference?

Are you suggesting that McNish let him by?

[eddsc]

No, not at all. But bearing in mind the economy that the R10s displayed one race later, logically they weren't running at anything like full power/torque - which helped make it look as though the weight disparity was really significant.. more so than it really was.. perhaps.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by eddsc

Following up Paul's post - do you remember how Johansson blew by McNish on lap 1/2 at PLM? From memory, the Scot blamed the disparity in weight. But does 65 kg make that much difference?

That sly Scot!

The fact is pretty well accepted around the paddock, according to a furry friend of mine, that the current ACO rules simply do not permit a gasoline powered P1 to win, unless as a result of the most extreme set of circumstances. Further, there is enough "flexibility" in the diesel (trade off between power and economy), to easily overcome even the greater P1 weight advantage given gasoline engines by the ALMS. The way in which the Audi was able to win at Laguna Seca may have been the final proof needed. However, a friend of the Bear's was told before the race that the conclusion had already been reached that there was no way to beat the Audis short of a draconian reduction of the diesel's fuel allowance. That has not yet happened, and will not happen during 2007, so...

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by TWK

The way in which the Audi was able to win at Laguna Seca may have been the final proof needed.

And what way was that? You mean with its opponents spinning and penalizing themselves down the grid? Yes, rock solid proof.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by jhansen

And what way was that? You mean with its opponents spinning and penalizing themselves down the grid? Yes, rock solid proof.

I was just thinking, if pit rules as now exist, existed back when Porsche used to beat Detroit iron with fuel mileage; it would have been an odd sight: Porsches and BMWs finishing 1st to last car running and US cars would have to have a special prize money category based on first in DNF, or would that be last?

The US cars had to pit more often than the German cars. They would have been faced with he dilema of either run till dry, and lose the race, or pit for gasoline, and lose the race anyway, via penalty.
Ah to be, or not to be....
Bob

[eddsc]

"When the ACO published the regulations for diesel engines three years ago, I called them and asked if they knew what they were doing. I am not an expert, but just looking at the regulations I could see that, with the air inlet restrictors that were specified, you could have so much air going into the engine that you could have at least 800 bhp. And don't even talk about the torque!"
So who said that?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Well I did kinda see this one. Where does Dyson have all their ALMS wins, with the exception of 3, they're all in the LMP2( or LMP675 at the time). They feel that the Lola LMP cars are junk right now, and they want to win races, at least in class.

I wonder if they are junk, or is a link up with Porsche just too good to turn down, especially if Dyson has some insight on their future plans.

Another year developing the Lola followed by a Championship challenge in 2008, or a P2 Championship challenge in '07-'08, Porsche P1 in 2009/10.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by eddsc

No, not at all. But bearing in mind the economy that the R10s displayed one race later, logically they weren't running at anything like full power/torque - which helped make it look as though the weight disparity was really significant.. more so than it really was.. perhaps.

Who knows, then again Zytek and Creation didn't exactly have the opportunity to pressure the Audi late in the race (Laguna) thanks to off's and penalties.

[chernaudi]

And that's one of the problems. These teams are screwing themselves out of opportunities. That was the same way with the R8. Audi almost never had problems, and when they did, something as bad or worse will happen to the opposition, or would still simply be out ran.

And I don't understand people using the fact that the R10 was diesel powered as an excuse for their problems. The R8 had a whole back end that could be changed in 4 minutes-no one complained( or atleast loudly). Then the R8 used FSI direct fuel injection, and made more power, and ran 1-2 more laps at LM than anything else. Again, no one complained. To me, the saddest thing about IMSA's competition adjustments(and the ACO's new rules) is that it gives too many people too many reasons to whine. Just like NASCAR of a few years ago. The only way to stop this is used spec cars-which is not what Le Mans type sportscar racing is about.