So just what the hell happened in the tunnel?

[ensign14]

Ross Brawn admitted that MS was warming up his brakes under a safety car, 'as you do'.

So Brawn admits MS, without warning, slammed on anchors in the dark.

So therefore it must be JPM's fault.

Patrick Head: "Montoya raced at 240mph in the States, he knows what respect for other drivers is." Subtext - MS does not?

[Gt_R]

Like i've said in another thread, we need to hear the stories from all parties before making a judgement... now all we have are opinions.

[DavidStHubbins]

I still remember the respect JPM had for Andretti when he chopped him into the wall on an oval at huge speed for something Andretti had done to him earlier

[ASCII Man]

Alonso's crash was after the turn in the tunnel, Schumacher locked up well before that.
And a brake test it obviously is not, as then his right front tyre or even both front tyres should be the one(s) to lock up.

Anyway, the last thing i want to mention here is that i want to thank Monty for pushing Schumi off!
This was the first race in a long time that i watched from flag to flag!

[Knowlesy]

[Damon]

Like I said earlier Gt_R, it looked like a misunderstanding, with both drivers equally to blame for what is, in effect, a non-incident. Nothing malicious from either party.

[EERO]

Schumacher was way over on the left, in the same marbles that caught alonso out. Perhaps he hit debris. If he was fiddling with the brake bias, and had debris under the right front tire, (Debris being either tire clag, of from Alonso's contretemps with the wall, or both)and had adjusted the bias, that might explain the lock up. The car pushed to the right under braking, JPM, following closely, dove for the only clear bit of track rather than bugger the Ferrari. Circumstances and a measure of small mistakes make for a mess. It happens. Racing incident. Over and out.

[Knowlesy]

Montoya couldn't really have done much though....

At the end of the day it was an abrupt manouvre in an idiotic part of the track.

However it wasn't malicious as people have suggested, just an error.

[ralf fan]

actually it wasnt really smart to slow down in the middle of the tunnel to warm up the brakes especially behind the safety car with the cars so bunched up... MS should have slammed the throttle and got a bit more space between himself and JPM...

[dcp2685]

Originally posted by Gt_R
Heh..Damon, did you in THIS thread say it's Juan's fault?

I'm just countering suggestions that people accuse MS of brake testing, which i really couldn't find a reason why he would.

And i do give some doubt that Ferrari ran into problems or simply MS ran off line and tried to slow too much with brakes.. it ain't the best thing to do, but still, the lead driver's the one setting the pace, and if it's the 2nd placed driver who hit..it may make more sense than a backmarker sticking right up the backside of the lead driver.

MS may had a hand in the resultant clash, but still, Juan had to bear a portion of the blame for the incident.

HOWEVER, this is Monaco, and it being so tight and stuff, really there's only so much a driver could do to avoid..so nothing to lose much sleep over.

P.S don't anyone think the title should be more clear. There's Ralf vs Alonso in the tunnel too

I don't think there is a way to really blame montoya. Let's face it Schumi made a mistake and it cost him. Judging how close they run under the safety, I'm sure it completely took monty by surprise to see MS just slow down. I don't think MS brake tested him as it wouldn't have made sense. I believe he was changing the bias on the brakes, and obviously something happened to cause the left front to lock up....i think Monty just reacted in darting inside. If he hadn't i would think Monty would have rear ended schumi and it would have been even more contraversial.

At the same time being in monty's shoes he probably just reacted and saw a small opening. MS didn't turn into him as that wouldn't have made sense either since positions can't be changed under a caution. I think when monty saw MS slow, he just reated and jolted inside and they just ran out of space.

It sucks for MS but i don't think you can really blame monty for the accident. MS made a mistake.

On the side it was a wonderful race.

[Gt_R]

s

[Sodemo]

As Patrick said, the same thing happened to Button at Monza in 2000, when TGF nailed the gas (presumably for a restart) then stood on the brakes. Micheal has been knocking on the door of an accident for a while now with his "questionable" moves (swerves, iffy braking etc) so its high tide he got the **** end of the stick.

[Gt_R]

Nah..i wasn't even suggesting that Montoya takes Michael out deliberately or with intent..

It's just a racing accident. MS did something as per what he always do, and the driver behind read it wrongly or lapse in concentration, being caught out and just reacted not enough. A racing incident.

The thing that i'm trying to figure is why during safety car period the backmarker tags the leader so closely (more understandably if it's the 2nd driver, but backmarker?), there's quite a gap to the 3rd car in queue, and that when this incident occur at a relatively slow speed for F1 cars, the driver behind did not slow down much to avoid but rather simply tried to squeeze into a gap (and it's this that caused the accident). And for this part of the incident, as much as racing incident as it may be, a huge part of the blame now seems to be in JPM's court..

And he seems to agree if reports of him apologizing is true.. It's out of character, and it's not going to get MS back an almost certain 8points..but i guess sheets happen!

[Damon]

Damn it, no 9 pager then this week. We've sorted this one out already!

[Gt_R]

Yes, i recall the Monza incident too, and that the general consensus after THAT incident was that MS was within his role as a lead driver to bunch the field up, Button being caught out due to inexperience, and drivers behind, being informed that the safety car is coming in, would be prepared for such moves rather than try charging into the car ahead.

[Sodemo]

Yes but unlike on the road, the lead driver has a duty not to bring undue risk to the cars behind by erratic or unpredictable braking, Micheal has done this many times and its about time he got caught out.
I actually cheered when he went into the wall

[josvandeperre]

Go MOnster - well both of you actually - JPM did nothing wrong and 'our' monster sums it up very succinctly

[ASCII Man]

Originally posted by The Monster
I actually cheered when he went into the wall

Me, my mother and my sister did exactly the same!

[Knowlesy]

Schuey fans then?

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by The Monster
I actually cheered when he went into the wall

I'm quite sure you were, because Michael was all over Trulli's pace at that point, and his lap times were just getting better and better.

We all had that feeling, that if there was anyone that could come from behind to win at Monaco, it was Michael.

The guy is simply the best...

[ASCII Man]

Uhm, NO!
Mum and sis are Ralf fans. (but not Ralf fan fan's i must add! )

[Dani Filth]

Originally posted by Damon
Like I said earlier Gt_R, it looked like a misunderstanding, with both drivers equally to blame for what is, in effect, a non-incident. Nothing malicious from either party.

malicious or not . someone made a mistake .. usually you have to pay for your mistakes . lets see what the stewarts decide

[freud]

Originally posted by Damon
Silly little misunderstanding by the looks of it. Schu seemed to be trying to get some heat in his tyres (bit odd for him to try it in the dark mind), Montoya didn't "go up the back of him" as the dullard put it, but rather took avoiding action, Schu didn't see he was there and turned into him.

I agree. I cannot say for sure what what going through MS's head in the darkness of the tunnel, but the smoke from the left front tyre was indeed very odd. The possibilities are limitless... jammed brake disc, brake test on an old rival, fiddling around with brake settings/traction control... etc. J. Pablo did take an avoiding action and you cannot really blame him. A simple racing incident.

[Knowlesy]

Maybe now we will get some rules put in place? Maybe the "brake warming" will be restricted from now? Who knows?

We were always going to get an accident through it at some point....

[Dani Filth]

i don;t think it was a racing incident ... because it wasn;t racing at the moment ..