Soon to be made official: Penske ditches Cart

[Liz]

I am right with you, KC! Surrender is not in my vocabulary. I do not believe that the way the world works is that everyone meekly falls in line and does what we are told because somebody somewhere ordains that it shall be so. ABC's junk version of Champ Cars is not the version other countries saw, and incidentally, name the international sponsors on the Brand X cars ... and tell me what the neilsons are for NASCAR outside the US borders. You are all still thinking that America Is The Whole World and it is not true.

I work on tobacco litigation and one thing that was mentioned is "America is the Land of the Deal" ... perhaps, said my boss the lawyer, Penske thinks that he can finness the American law to get awy with advertising that is against the tobacco company agreements, but he knows he can't do that in the larger world.

As far as I am aware, Penske has sponsors begging to advertise on his very successful cars. Why not just pick up some of those sponsors to run in Champ Cars and put Marlboro on the Brand X car, driven by some guy from Indy Lights who needs the experience and is eager to prove himself, and back him to the hilt, and then at the end of the year, compare the numbers? If Penske is a businessman, and if he is also a racer, he will surely see the logic in this.

I'm going to do just what KC suggests and contact every sponsor about the changes in the sport, and I'm going to talk positively about the racing to everyone I meet and get my friends to go to the races with me so they can see what a great time they will have. And I will not watch Brand X Racing and I will let the sponsors and my friends know that too ... in fact, I'll give them all the arguments that the Weepers and Wailers are using against Champ Cars, plus the fact that Brand X uses WWF tactics, has fist fights in pit road, and regularly crash their cars -- and have not got the money to fix them, which does not happen in Champ Cars.

Champ Cars will continue. There will not be "three or four" teams running -- that would be Brand X, sponsored by Maury's Warehouse and Joe's I-75 Exit 20 Car Wash. Put three or four Champ Car teams with all the money they carry into the field and even Tony George will run out of cash to throw against them.

And then they will come to us.

[cartfan1]

I think this is just buisness on the part of Penske, but I also
feel that to presume that it's wrong to expand internationaly is
not right either.
The fact is, the U.S. market is saturated with racing in a country
that dosen't view racing the way it percieves stick and ball sports.

The Irl for all it's conections to Indy, has poor attendance at most
of it's races and the TV numbers are pretty bad also except for Indy.

This is a transition period for cart, the bigger sponcors will come,
the big question is, will the teams stay or take the easy road to a
temporary solution, concidering their poor decisions in the past, I
would likely believe more will go.

I don't trust the judgement of most of the team principles, they have
created quite a mess for themselves and even with all the good intentions of Mr. Forsythe and Vannini it may be to late.

Cart can survive and prosper into the future if the teams stay,
their expansionist buisness formula can work and drive the series
to hights never imagined, but it will will take some time, and simply
going to the Irl regardless of it's mounting fanancial problems will
seem like the easy thing to do for some owners.

Either way they will find themselves back in 1979 and the honeymoon
will be over soon enough.

[paulzinho]

If CART continues to develop internationally then the sponsors and engines will come to them. The thing is that CART are huge outside of America interest in Europe is growing rapidly after their visit this year, the BBC's interest in screening next years series shows this and a terrestrial deal in the UK could prove significant.

As for K-Mart are they at all connected to Wal-Mart who have recently purchased a chain of nationwide stores in the UK? They may have something to say. As for IRL, Tony Georges money will only go so far...

[MaxSport]

Liz-If you are the person in charge of US Sales and Marketing for Marlboro, then the USA IS the whole world. It is their budget that the CART funding comes from.

The US is not the center of the world? The Muslims didn't fly a 767 into that UFO on a stick thing up in Canada,eh.

Nice of you to comment on your perception of the IRL fan and United States culture,Liz. Even if it were true, there are more backwards Canadians, per capita, than here. I know this as they are all relatives of mine. So lighten up with the superior attitude, eh.

At least in Indiana we know that the WWF isn't real!


Kurt Maxwell
MaxSport
Indianapolis,IN

[Liz]

I'm an American who gets very fed up with the America Is The World attitude frequently, and finds "Talking to Americans" on 22 Minutes to be too true to be really funny; the abysmal lack of knowledge about the rest of the world down there is one reason I moved up here (although I'm reconsidering now for other reasons). America is a unique country and it is wrong to assume that anywhere, much less everywhere, they want exactly what people in the USA want. It is simply not true.

================

If you've watched the Marlboro Masters, you will notice that a very small percentage of the people driving in that are Americans. For example Carlos Cheka, Tommi Maakenin, and Michael Schumacher are all Non-Americans. I would not think that if Marlboro were forced out of racing in the USA tonight, that anybody at that company would go to bed hungry tomorrow. And Penske has sponsors calling him all the time, as well as of course having a successful business of his own outside of racing, so I would not think he is as sponsor-dependent as that he would be whipsawed by Marlboro into acting against his own interests.

[mac]

Originally posted by paulzinho
If CART continues to develop internationally then the sponsors and engines will come to them.

It's not so long ago that there were rumours of Ferrari placing Maserati into CART as engine suppliers to lift their Nth American profile. CART must offer incentives for manufacturers and sponsors to enter CART. I believe that now they are in a position to do so. (Though if CART continue screwing things up, like they have with the engine issue, they won't be in much of a position at all).

I agree with Liz, cartfan1 and Paul on this issue.

[Liz]

Kurt, I'd hate to have you visit me in the hospital. And if you'd gone to see Alex Zanardi, I bet you'd have told him to face the facts: he has no legs, he has no career, his friends will all forget about him as soon as the season starts again, his wife is suffering from the strain of caring for him, and he'll probably develop all kinds of infections and complications if he starts trying to pull himself back up to a normal life. And if he tried to argue the positives, you'd tell him to quit dreaming, that strictly from a business point of view he'd be better off dead.

I will continue to be positive and work for the good of Champ Cars and help boost the positives in every way I can. That is the way to face facts -- to realise that it is up to us to make everyone aware that we care if the series continues.

[MaxSport]

??????

You can't do anything about CART. Zanardi can do something about his situation. Perhaps it will include touringcars in the ETCC.

To suggest that because of the realistic view that I have of what is going on in CART translates into having no empathy for Zanardi is spin of Clintonesque proportions.

I guess that since you have no rational reponse to my posts that the next best thing is to make me the bad man who hates CART and now would tell Zanardi that his life is over.

Present me with facts as to why I am wrong. Don't post negative thoughts that are not even mine as a response to my opinions.

There can still be a CART. It just may not be the overpriced world tour that you want to see. That is not negative, just realistic.

KM

[Liz]

My comparison was meant to show that you are taking a 100% negative viewpoint and "realistically" pointing out that Champ Cars are doomed and their life is over and there's nothing anybody can do about it ... when this may very well be not the case at all.

Why don't we wait and see what happens for sure, before we start throwing dirt into a grave that so far is completely empty?

[mac]

Originally posted by MaxSport
You can't do anything about CART.

You never CAN'T do anything about anything. Imagine if everyone simply sat back and accepted that nothing could be done, so we won't worry about it. That's not the kind of world I want to live in. You can always do something about anything. If it doesn't work, you'll feel secure in the knowledge that you did your best. And if it does work .....

[MaxSport]

The bottom line is that whether we like it or not the CART teams and their sponsors want an IRL formula and to run at Indy. If it is a scenario where they run CART and also Indy with the same cars or one where CART dies and the IRL takes over does not matter that much. Everyone will be on the same page and that is good for "Indycar racing". Just ask the teams.

I don't just make this stuff up. It may not even be my ideal situation, but it is what seems to be the concensus in the biz. BTW- The better IRL teams like it too.

No teams equals no CART, Mr.Vannini.

KM

[Liz]

Did I miss the announcement?

[Emfa]

Originally posted by Liz
Did I miss the announcement?

The latest word is that the official announcement is due next Monday (19th). Probably.

[mac]

CART have taken another hit.

I have just heard a rumour that Ferrari are considering placing Maserati in the IRL as an engine supplier. This rumour once had them going to CART. This would be devastating news.

[Liz]

4:00 p.m. on the 19th.

Nothing from Penske yet.

Unless I missed it.

[nem]

There is little doubt that Penske is going to the IRL next year.

Castroneves has accepted an invitation to drive in the IROC series next year. The IROC dates conflict with the CART schedule thus Helio is planning on driving in the IRL next year.

Honda is rumored to have offered enough sponsorship to Penske so Gil can defend his title next year in CART.

Last I have heard is Penske won't make the official announcement till after the last NASCAR race which is this weekend in New Hampshire, weather permitting.

So as it seems to currently stand for 2002, IMO:

Helio Castroneves(and probably a second car)in the IRL with Marlboro on the sidepods and the 4 IROC races.
Gil De Ferran in CART defending his title with Honda on the sidepods.

2003?:

Penske with two(maybe 3)new drivers in the IRL, out of CART, Helio and Gil looking for a new ride at end of 2002 season.

[macdaddy]

Or maybe 2003 will see Helio returning to the IRL to win his third consecutive Indy.

[Liz]

Or perhaps it's all rumours and when the announcement comes it will say that Penske is going to run a car in the Brand X league with a Brand X driver, to pacify Marlboro, and his good drivers will be in the Champ Car race with other sponsorship. Wonder what colour the cars will be?

Helio has come out against racing in Brand X because he knows it will trash his chances of going to F1, and I can't imagine Penske forcing him to destroy his career just for money.

[paulzinho]

If Helio 'Spiderman' Castro-Neves has come out against IRL then surely that is good news, he's a road racer anyway, a real driver and that is what CART is about, sure I like the superspeedway races but they aren't the be all and end all of motor racing. The IRL limits itself to ovals and therefore limits the quality of its drivers.


Penske will stay. Or else.....

[Liz]

In an interview for a Brazilian newspaper, Helio is quoted as saying that his ambition is to go to F1 and that driving in the Brand X League would end his hopes "since nobody in F1 watches that series." In an interview after the Indy 500 Penske is quoted as having said that he will aid Helio in his quest to go to F1 "for the right team". Penske is smart enough to know that nobody in F1 is going to be watching Helio drive round in circles in a purely American series when his major talent is street and road racing anyway.

I have never heard of Penske cold-bloodedly setting out to destroy the career of one of his drivers for the sake of current cash flow.

That is why this entire thing makes absolutely no sense to me and never has.

P.S. It's now Tuesday. Did I miss the announcement?