Who should be Renault's drivers next year? - Page 2

mac · 1 Jun 2003, 04:22 (Ref:616368)

Why make changes just for the sake of it???

Both are performing well. Both are good drivers. Both have Renault working well, and pulling in the right direction.

Trulli has had shocking luck his whole career. If he ever gets paid back, some team will reap a huge reward.

I'd love to see Webber in a Renault - but he's locked in at Jag. I haven't seen one lineup mentioned above that could possibly match the current one.

Wrex · 1 Jun 2003, 05:14 (Ref:616388)

Quote:

Originally posted by EERO
I'm not convinnced that Trulli could ever be a winner. Frankly, Flavio Flave should apologise to Fisi and get him back to partner Alonso.

Now your talking.

1. Fisi and Alonso would be an excellent choice.

2. Any of the others.

3. Villenueve. I could'nt think of a worse decision Renault could make other than putting JV in the car. They are on the way up. Every team JV has been in has gone backwards.

TeddyG · 1 Jun 2003, 06:00 (Ref:616402)

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
3. Villenueve. I could'nt think of a worse decision Renault could make other than putting JV in the car. They are on the way up. Every team JV has been in has gone backwards.

Oh all two of the teams that he's been in have gone backwards?
Ummm in case you weren't aware JV came into F1 in 1996 where Hill won the championship and JV was a close second (in his rookie year!) both in the Williams...1997 JV won the championship (beating the "almighty" Shu fair and square - even when Shumie tried to cheat)...don't think they went backwards there!

1998 - Renault having dominated for enough years departed from F1 and JV did what he could in a much slower Williams. Williams have still yet to produce a top car like they had in 1997, but I suppose that's JV's fault as well. Considering he left the team 5 years ago.

And as far as BAR goes they started in 1999 with zero points and almost no reliability and have in my view steadily improved each year (despite what the points suggest)...

It is no easy task to start a team from virtually nothing and make it competitive. Just ask Jaguar who have been at it as long as BAR and have less to show for it, despite having the backing of a major manufacturer their entire existance.
BAR is now the closest of the brand new teams (BAR, Jaguar, Toyota) to challenging the top three. To say JV wasn't a huge part in this improvement is crazy, indeed the BAR team wouldn't even exist if JV had not agreed to join the team. (BAT wasn't going to sponsor the team unless JV was on board!)

Wrex · 1 Jun 2003, 06:21 (Ref:616406)

Quote:

Originally posted by TeddyG

Oh all two of the teams that he's been in have gone backwards?
Ummm in case you weren't aware JV came into F1 in 1996 where Hill won the championship and JV was a close second (in his rookie year!) both in the Williams...1997 JV won the championship (beating the "almighty" Shu fair and square - even when Shumie tried to cheat)...don't think they went backwards there!

And then .....

As for BAR, I agree. JV does deserve most of the credit. The team is a shambles.

If JV was in a top car, I have no doubts he would be fast. But any good driver could say that. GREAT drivers take what they have and make the most of it. Villenuve Senior could do it, Senna could do it, Schumacher can do it. Jacques can't.

If he haad crushed every team mate like Schumacher, Fisi (and now Webber), I would agree with you. An ex WDC he is, a future champion he is not.

TeddyG · 1 Jun 2003, 06:45 (Ref:616417)

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
And then .....

So you ARE saying that it is JV's fault that Renault left after having enough of their domination of F1??? And it is JV's fault that Williams have not been able to dupliacte the levels of success they had in 96-97 even though JV has been out of the team for 5 years???

By that logic it is Shumacher's fault that Benneton/Renault haven't achieved their same levels of success since he left them in 1995.

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex

As for BAR, I agree. JV does deserve most of the credit. The team is a shambles.

Still they are the best car of the brand new teams that have entered F1 after 1999 (BAR, Jaguar, Toyota). Despite having the least amount of resources of these teams and not being owned entirely by a manufacturer. Indeed they look to be the best team behind the top three and Renault. JV deserves some credit for getting the team from last place in 1999 with zero points to where they are today, which is effectively 5th place in the championship.

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex

An ex WDC he is, a future champion he is not.

Well only time will tell on that one...JV has the abilities as he has proven so against the "best driver of all time" and he will again given the car.

Wrex · 1 Jun 2003, 06:59 (Ref:616422)

Quote:

Originally posted by TeddyG
So you ARE saying that it is JV's fault that Renault left after having enough of their domination of F1??? And it is JV's fault that Williams have not been able to dupliacte the levels of success they had in 96-97 even though JV has been out of the team for 5 years???

In 96 and 97 JV was the driver you think he still is. But after the car got slower and it looked liked he was leaving for BAR, he was pathetic. A GREAT driver races regardless of the car or contract. His dad had it, he does'nt.

Quote:

Originally posted by TeddyG
By that logic it is Shumacher's fault that Benneton/Renault haven't achieved their same levels of success since he left them in 1995.

Well, er , yes. Had Bennetton kept MS (and co.) I have no doubt they would have done better. Williams on the other hand were lucky to offload JV or they would be doing even worse!

Quote:

Originally posted by TeddyG
Still they are the best car of the brand new teams that have entered F1 after 1999 (BAR, Jaguar, Toyota).

I'm sure Renault were'nt around in 99, but I could be wrong

Quote:

Originally posted by TeddyG
Despite having the least amount of resources

well we know where they are waisting most of there money dont we

Quote:

Originally posted by TeddyG
JV deserves some credit for getting the team from last place in 1999 with zero points to where they are today.

He should also get some credit for being in last place in 99!

Quote:

Originally posted by TeddyG
Well only time will tell on that one...JV has the abilities as he has proven against the "best driver of all time" and he will again given the car.

Please dont leave when JV gets the ass this year

How can we make fun of you if you are gone?

golem · 1 Jun 2003, 07:16 (Ref:616433)

Oh come on Wrex, you know that team is benetton with bigger backing.

Regardless, Alonso/Fisi would be a very quick pairing but again, I don't want Fisi to leave Jordan, nor would Eddie.

Failing that, Alonso/Trulli is doing nicely. All trulli needs is to concentrate over an entire race, utilise his qualifying position this weekend and the confidance will do him good. There's better out there but I think he could become much better too.

Wrex · 1 Jun 2003, 07:24 (Ref:616438)

Quote:

Originally posted by golem
Oh come on Wrex, you know that team is benetton with bigger backing.

True, but no different to Tyrrel.

If we want to be fair, Toyota are really the only NEW team in F1.

frostblade · 1 Jun 2003, 07:43 (Ref:616449)

TeddyG, you're funny

Jenson is better though - he's been faster than JV all weekend. Apart from when he put it in the wall.

TeddyG · 1 Jun 2003, 07:51 (Ref:616455)

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
In 96 and 97 JV was the driver you think he still is. But after the car got slower and it looked liked he was leaving for BAR, he was pathetic. A GREAT driver races regardless of the car or contract. His dad had it, he does'nt.

Purely your own opinion there... fine you are entitled. Doesn't make you right though

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
Well, er , yes. Had Bennetton kept MS (and co.) I have no doubt they would have done better. Williams on the other hand were lucky to offload JV or they would be doing even worse!

That wasn't the point. You were saying before that it seems to be JV's fault that Williams have gone downhill when he hasn't even BEEN in the team! Thus the comparison with Shumi.
The part about offloading JV or they would be worse off is also your opinion (see above again)

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
I'm sure Renault were'nt around in 99, but I could be wrong

I don't consider Renault a "brand new" team they were orginally Bennetton who have a winning history and have retained much of the staff (most noteably F.Briatore) and knowledge of the old Bennetton team.

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
well we know where they are waisting most of there money dont we

Not the salery issue again. I don't know how many times I can explain this. BAT paid what it took to get a recently crowned WDC into a BRAND NEW team! If JV hadn't taken the salery they offered then the team would not exist. Full stop. JV also wants to be paid on a performance basis next year so finally you can all shut up about this.

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
He should also get some credit for being in last place in 99!

In a brand new team! Want to guess how many points Williams got in their first year of GP Racing?- Six. How about McLaren? - Three.
And this at a time when the competition was no where near as fierce. Look at what great teams they have gone on to become from such lousy first years.

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex

Please dont leave when JV gets the ass this year
How can we make fun of you if you are gone?

For your sake he better get booted next year because if he ever gets back on top you'll be begging for my mercy.

TeddyG · 1 Jun 2003, 08:12 (Ref:616466)

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
True, but no different to Tyrrel.

If we want to be fair, Toyota are really the only NEW team in F1.

Well Renault is more like a continuation of Benneton, similar staff, team principle, and sponsors. Jaguar and BAR are totally new teams taking little from the teams they bought up. Admittedly Jag probably took more from Stewart than BAR did from Tyrell. But that only strenthens my point that BAR are doing the best out of these "new" teams despite having less to work with.

TeddyG · 1 Jun 2003, 08:29 (Ref:616484)

Jaguar really has no excuses for being behind BAR. Toyota have tons more money and it is only their second year but I don't see them challenging the top three for another two years or so.
My point is that Wrex was making the claim that JV is responsible for all the teams he has been in to go downhill. That was not true at Williams and it's not true at BAR. They are a brand new team and have improved steadily over the years. Any new team is going to take time to get to be able to challenge for wins irrespective of their drivers. I am trying to prove this through the examples of Jaguar and Toyota.

badoer fan · 1 Jun 2003, 08:38 (Ref:616487)

Quote:

Originally posted by mr v
This was mentioned by someone (on this board) after Maylasia, and i have to say, looking at the rearwards facing camera shots from the Renault, body parts did seem to be "moving"

I *totally* misinterpreted that!

I think both should stay. They're both good drivers, both very quick, and I still think Trulli could beat many drivers out there.

TeddyG · 2 Jun 2003, 01:11 (Ref:617319)

Well after another brilliant display of reliability from JV's BAR I have to say that this team will never allow him to challenge the top three...off to Renault!

View Poll Results: Who will be driving for Renault in 2004?
Alonso and Trulli	12	30.00%
Alonso and McNish	3	7.50%
Alonso and Villeneuve	10	25.00%
Trulli and McNish	0	0%
Trulli and Villeneuve	0	0%
Alonso and Bourdais	9	22.50%
Trulli and Bourdais	0	0%
Trulli and someone else	0	0%
Alonso and someone else	5	12.50%
2 new drivers	1	2.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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