Wurz to Jaguar??

[Glen]

Originally posted by Mark Webber
...Mark will beat Wurz if he is the pick but that not the point...

Careful there Mark - such declarations often end in tears! I believe Wurz is a high quality driver, developer and racer - and i reckon we should wait and see before we judge the outcome. You might be surprised.

[Mark Webber]

Mark is faster and has proven it in testing in same car . But you r right we shall see .
He will push Mark I'll say that .
My main point was THey would both Push Jag to Renault which they would

[Glen]

I'm very much looking forward to this paring, if it comes to pass. The extra $15m will help Jaguar too, but I can't see them getting near Renault any time soon. If the tyre situation comes back the other way a little bit I think Jaguar will struggle to cope with BAR, never mind Renault.

[Mark Webber]

Originally posted by Glen
I'm very much looking forward to this paring, if it comes to pass. The extra $15m will help Jaguar too, but I can't see them getting near Renault any time soon. If the tyre situation comes back the other way a little bit I think Jaguar will struggle to cope with BAR, never mind Renault.

If Jag gets Wurz Renualt WILL BE LOOKING over there shoulder without adoubt . Mark driving a car with his input unlike the R4 + a driver that can score points in Wurz as a No.2, we will have a top 5
As for Bar stuck on Bridgestone (contract and all not just prodive by Honda as well) and with Sato Bar have a tough year ahead .
But Toyota could suprize and Renualt with a all new motor will do 1 of 2 thing fly or blow up

So IF the Wurz deal pays off Jag are in the box seat and I'll stand by that

[Adam43]

I think Renault will be OK, Webber isn't that good! I also think that we should be looking at what input Wurz would bring to developing the car.

Jaguar may score over Renault early on because of the change in philosophy over the Renault design. However Renault are meant ot be well done htis route now, so I am not convinced Jaguar Racing can even do this.

[Mark Webber]

I didn't say Renault wwhere dead just they will have company that all .

Is Webber that good weeeeeeeellllll I'm not the guy to ask as you know my answer . the R5 would be done by now so IF Wurz came on board he would be a developer not a inputer
and he has done a great job at Mac so I see no problems there .

IMHO this combo would be the best car developing combo in F1 today

[Adam43]

Perhaps I should have said: It is not a question about Webber, I just don't think any driver is that good

[Glen]

Jaguar have already publicly committed themselves to a conservative approach to car design, and the R5 will very much be a development of the 2003 car. Renault are a team with much more depth and excitement in their design and engineering departments, I feel, and if I had to bet on who would be likely to progress I would certainly put my money on Renault. Their driver pairing is pretty hot too don't forget - probably a match for Webber/Wurz. If reliability comes into it then Jaguar's approach might bear fruit, but there again the Cosworth dowsn't have the finest reputation in that regard!

[Mark Webber]

just don't right off the Cat just yet

But I know where you r coming from

[vatuloa]

Before jaguar choose Justin Wilson they tries to get Wurz however McLaren would not let him go so he must be the lead runner.

[Redlake27]

I just don't understand the excitement. Stewart/Jaguar appear to have a strange strategy regarding Number 2 drivers. They fluctuate from novices to has-beens, but never commit to anyone.

See what I mean:

1997 Magnussen (rookie)
1998 Verstappen (has been)
1999/00Herbert (has been)
2001 Burti (rookie)
2002 DeLa Rosa (has been)
2003 Pizzonia (rookie)
2003 Wilson (rookie)
2004 Wurz..........................

It hardly shows a trend of recruiting and cultivating talent. Considering Stewart made much of their 'ladder to fame' with F3 and F3000 teams, they rarely brought out the best in the drivers in F1. The No1's did well, Barrichello, Irvine and Webber respectively.....but the No2's (Herberts fluke win notwithstanding) were nowhere.

I think it is a team problem, and Wurz would be better of where he is, and the team should invest in an up and coming star (as they did with Webber) and really commit to him.

[JohnSSC]

A thread applying logic. Thoughtful comparisons of various drivers' strengths and weaknesses. Intelligent discussion of benefits to a team tactically and strategically.

One problem:

The thread is about "Sackuar!"

I mean really, if this were almost any other team, then the discussion would make sense. With Sackuar's record of sacking nearly everyone and everyone (no matter how good their performance) I anticipate that if they do something sensible, they will reverse field shortly, or they will do something really inane saving them the trouble of doing something goofy during the season.

Webber has done a terrific job for them, but his heart rate must go through the roof every time he sees Sackuar's # on his cell phone's caller ID!

[Wrex]

Originally posted by JohnSSC
Webber has done a terrific job for them, but his heart rate must go through the roof every time he sees Sackuar's # on his cell phone's caller ID!

I dont know mate, I think Webber is the one Jag team member that is'nt worried about being fired. His sacking could change half the seats in F1 next year.

[DriverT]

Yeah sure. But their employment policies are a joke

[JohnSSC]

And there is no question that Sackuar could do it - just look at their glowing releases about Pizzonia and then: pfffft!

The team is nearly a farce - not quite, but nearly.

[Mark Webber]

The chance Jag dimissing Mark is zero to none ! Former Management was less then good true but current management is doing a good with no prob's and those releases were by the old management not the current ones if you recall I think some should give the team/management some credit or at least a break they r easy the best improved Team this year the current team is far from being a farce!

[DriverT]

Yes Mark, like you I love Jaguar, but cannot help but be a bit depressed to see the budget reductions and the having to take on a pay driver. Their (mis)management in previous years was a farce, and reducing the amount of money available to spend is hardly the way to go. Yeah this is a bit of a kick at Ford

[Super Tourer]

The more you look at it, the more the Wurz/Jaguar position looks so right.

The Red Bull boss is Austrian, so will back Wurz without any problem.

Red Bull want to gain in the American market, therefore building an alliance with an American company is a good move.

The fight for points below the top 4 teams will be intense in 2004, therefore it's vital Jaguar secure a 2nd driver who can score points.


Wurz has worked with a top team, which is invaulable knowledge (if jaguar listen of course), he is also vastly experienced on Michelin tyres, and knows how a car should feel on that rubber.

If Jaguar secure Wurz and Red Bull, they will have surpassed all their criteria, increased their budget, got a driver with top team experiene and have a truly strong line up to challenge BAR/Toyota/Sauber.

[DriverT]

In this case, you're right. It does look good, as the rent-a-driver is actually quite good.

[fog_shadow]

Webber is very very good!!

personally i'd like to see JV in the Jag alongside Webber. it'd be like the dream team. JV will get a car that is better than the **** tin that barf gave him, and he'll have a team-mate that he can respect as a racer and driver. also it'd give him a chance to prove a pont to the prix DR.

[bella]

but if jaguar took on a monty driver like wurz or villeneuve, webber would become #2 driver by default wouldn't he? and that's not what webber worshippers want is it?

[Mark Webber]

not a chance Webber IS Jag's No1 and he has earned it . Wurz will have to settle for No2 as would any new driver coming to the team .

[bella]

unlikely if it was a big name driver, mate. can you imagine jacques villeneuve saying yes to being driver #2 especially given the way jag have treated their second drivers in the past? if i were wurz i'd be asking serious questions of what he'd get for his sponsorship money, just as he would do in any lower class of racing. in the end, you're paying for a service, and jag need to make promises to ensure they get his money...

[Adam43]

This whole no.1 no.2 thing. Is it fact. Webber is the guy who is there and is doing well. Clearly the guy in the box seat at the moment, but are Jaguar having official 1 and 2s?

Even if Wurz go there. Does the new drive have to sign a no.2 contract.

It isn't as if Webber needs it. It will be a shame if there is a clear cut 1/2 because we won't be able to keep comparing Webber.

[Wrex]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
It will be a shame if there is a clear cut 1/2 because we won't be able to keep comparing Webber.

Well when it suites, some will claim that anyway.

I was disappointed Webbers good performances last year were written off so easily because of Yoong. I hoped this year would be different, but alas, some just wrote Pizzonia off rather then giving Webber the credit he deserved.

I got my hopes up again though, when the highly rated Wilson joined the team. But then it was claimed the cars were different. Now unless that second car is a Minardi painted green, I fail to see how minor parts account for the massive difference in speed.

I'll conceed they are probably not identicle, but I doubt there is a second per lap in it. It is also the smart thing to do to put the best parts behind the driver that will use them. Had Pizzonia or Wilson been showing Mark the way, I have no doubt they would have the better stuff instead.

Fact is, they did'nt.

As for next year, I doubt Jag's loyalty to Webber is that strong. If Wurz, or anyone else, showed they were quicker, Mark would be dumped like yesterdays garbage.