[LM24] The Greatest overall team performance at Le Mans

[ensign14]

Louis Rosier driving 23 hours is one of those things that might be myth...Jean-Louis Rosier was said to have driven two laps, but there is a theory that he drove more and the announcers missed it, or confused Rosier being replaced by Rosier. However, as Louis Rosier was a front-rank driver and Jean-Louis did eff all else, I am guessing Louis' contribution was much the greater.

Luigi Chinetti drove 22 out of 24 hours a couple of years earlier to win with Lord Selsdon; Eddie Hall drove the entire distance in 1950.

But surely the greatest team performance came from Porsche in 1982? 3 cars, 1-2-3, even the third was 11 laps clear of the field.

[GT6]

I would have to vote for the Mazda in 1991, tiny team not given a chance against the might of Jaguar and Mercedes but they won.

I was there and the effect that tiny little car had on the fanatically british supporters was amazing, by sheer hard work and continuing to enter every year Mazda always had admiration from the supporters but the cheers as they finished in ahead of a parade of Jags was a moving moment.

That team won the heart of all those at Le mans that year and no one I spoke to on that day had anything but admiration for the whole team.

[sssssssss]

Well, the 2008 Audi R10 TDI definitely was one of the most efficient cars of all times... Like Kristensen said, they just went into the pits for tyres and refuelling. And absolutely nothing else. I suppose that is pretty rare. The same, I guess, for the Porsche Rs Spyder which ran absolutely trouble-free.
And we've also got Audi's R8 victories which really were flawless many times.

[sssssssss]

Ultimately, I think the distance covered at the end of the race (at LM) states about a team's perfromance. And that would be great for Jaguar and Porsche in 1988 - 394 laps but without the chicanes in the Mulsanne, and Audi (and Bentley, if that's worth mentioning besides Audi) in the 2000s, including the 2008 R10 TDI record of 381 laps on the Mulsanne chicane version and over 216 km/h average speed.

[Aysedasi]

I don't think distance or margin of victory necessarily sums up the greatest performance ever for me. In fact, its a difficult and subjective thing for most people. I can happily look at Porsche in 1987 (when the winning car survived all the detonating engines due to the bad fuel), Jaguar in 1988, Mazda in 1991, but I can also look at any number of individual efforts, many of which netted absolutely nothing, where drivers and team gave of their all just to try to get the car to the finish. Almost too numerous to mention.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by sssssssss

Well, the 2008 Audi R10 TDI definitely was one of the most efficient cars of all times... Like Kristensen said, they just went into the pits for tyres and refuelling. And absolutely nothing else. I suppose that is pretty rare. The same, I guess, for the Porsche Rs Spyder which ran absolutely trouble-free.
And we've also got Audi's R8 victories which really were flawless many times.

The difference with the 2008 victory and the R8's flawless runs is that this year the car was properly pushed and theefore had to be driven flat out throughout. This to me raises it above those previous victories

[Duff_44]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Luigi Chinetti drove 22 out of 24 hours a couple of years earlier to win with Lord Selsdon

The year was 1949 (the first post-WWII Le Mans), and Chinetti actually drove all but 20 minutes.

Lord Selsdon later bought the car that he shared, a Ferrari 166MM, through Chinetti who was a Ferrari distributor.

[dxk1]

How about 1964 when Dan Gurney and Bob Bondurant drove an AC Cobra to 4th overall and beat the closest Ferrari GTO by 2 laps. They qualified 10th and had a great race completing 4492 km (334 laps) and were only 15 laps behind the winning Ferrari prototype! Quite a great run.

DK

[Sarthe82]

Originally Posted by dxk1

How about 1964 when Dan Gurney and Bob Bondurant drove an AC Cobra to 4th overall and beat the closest Ferrari GTO by 2 laps. They qualified 10th and had a great race completing 4492 km (334 laps) and were only 15 laps behind the winning Ferrari prototype! Quite a great run.

DK

Gurney was a fantastic driver, his win in '67 in the Ford MkIV was a classic, sharing with AJ Foyt but doing the vast majority of the driving and setting a new distance and speed record, masive talant that guy.

[The Badger]

One of the greatest Le Mans pre-race interviews came from Hans Stuck in 1989 . He was driving the Pink Italia Sports 962C for Joest , partnered by Wollek-Winter (Winter never drove) .

He said that with no problems , they would win . With 1 problem they would come 2nd , and with 2 problems they would come 3rd . They had 2 problems and came 3rd . One of which was a failing clutch which they bodged with a can of Coke !!!

But that was some battle between Jag & Porsche & Benz ..... and the Joest car had only 2 drivers .

That was a great team performance for me .

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by Sarthe82

Gurney was a fantastic driver, his win in '67 in the Ford MkIV was a classic, sharing with AJ Foyt but doing the vast majority of the driving and setting a new distance and speed record, masive talant that guy.

I agree about Gurney, he was one of the best ever. He never really had any luck at Le Mans except for 1964 when he won the GT class with Bondurant and 1967 when he won overall with AJ. He was smart too as that was his last drive. He decided to go out on top. He also had some great partners over the years at Le Mans, Bruce Kessler (in his debut year of 1958), Jean Behra (1959), Walt Hansgen (1960), Jo Bonnier (1961 & 62), Jim Hall (in his only Le Mans appearance as a driver) in 1963 in the NART Ferrari, Bob Bondurant in that memorable AC Cobra drive in 1964, Jerry Grant in 1965 & 66and AJ Foyt in the year he won in the Ford Mk IV, 1967. The only two he finished were 64 and 67, he certainly made the most of those two didn't he?

DK

[minimangler]

Originally Posted by The Badger

One of the greatest Le Mans pre-race interviews came from Hans Stuck in 1989 . He was driving the Pink Italia Sports 962C for Joest , partnered by Wollek-Winter (Winter never drove) .

He said that with no problems , they would win . With 1 problem they would come 2nd , and with 2 problems they would come 3rd . They had 2 problems and came 3rd . One of which was a failing clutch which they bodged with a can of Coke !!!

But that was some battle between Jag & Porsche & Benz ..... and the Joest car had only 2 drivers .

That was a great team performance for me .

Why did Winter not drive?

And you're right, btw.

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by minimangler

Why did Winter not drive?

And you're right, btw.

He was the reserve driver in the 9 car, but did drive the 7 car with Frank Jelinski and Pierre-Henri Raphanel.

[Aysedasi]

If I remember rightly, he was one of those drivers who drove under a pseudonym - John Winter not being his real name. Didn't he tend to concentrate on night driving too?

[Pilgrimage]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

If I remember rightly, he was one of those drivers who drove under a pseudonym - John Winter not being his real name. Didn't he tend to concentrate on night driving too?

You're correct Ayse - Louis Krages.
He used the pseudonym to prevent his mother from learning about his racing.

[ensign14]

Why John Winter though? Given that he was German? It would tend to stand out more at a Norisring clubbie, surely?

[Subaru_WRX_STi]

what about the Bimmer outright victory of 1999, against the faster Toyota GT-One, that was great too, no one gives them a chance before the race against TTE and AMG lol

[sssssssss]

Yup, that was a cool one, although the year 1999 I think obviously belonged to Toyota... It was really nothing else than pure bad luck for the GT-One to once again fail winning in the last minutes of the race, quite similarily to what happened in '98. It was pretty evident that Katayama would have caught the BMW and ultimately pass it in the last moment and it cannot be said that the last of the 3 '99 GT-Ones had any endurance problems, it was just pure bad luck to catch that debris and have a flat tyre, as well as it was pure luck for the BMW ahead not going into that same debris when passing through that spot, seconds BEFORE the Toyota!

[Aysedasi]

Hmmm, I confess that - despite desperately weanting the GT-One to win - I don't recall it being as evident as that.........

[sssssssss]

I might be wrong with that, but I remember hopes were pretty high with Katayama besting the lap record right behind Martini - he was constantly about 3 seconds faster on a single lap, sometimes even 4 to 5 seconds (in terms of clean laps, the BMW was doing 3:40s, while the Toyota was doing 3:37s and even 3:35), which would have been exactly enough to get past the BMW in the last laps. Again, my memory might not serve me correctly with this, but I recall the difference came down to only 20 seconds between the Toyota and the BMW, when there still were about 30 minutes left of the race.

[Aysedasi]

I can't remember that far back, I'm afraid, I just don't remember being particularly optimistic about it at the time, just annoyed that Katayama should leave it until so late in the race to start driving fast...........

[sssssssss]

LOL that was really something I didn't get quite right even until now... Like, why was he driving so slowly in all the qualifying sessions and during most of the 24 hours, if he could actually get the fastest lap of the race eventually, and also break the time's lap record?

[Aysedasi]

Exactly.........

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by sssssssss

but I remember hopes were pretty high with Katayama besting the lap record right behind Martini - he was constantly about 3 seconds faster on a single lap, sometimes even 4 to 5 seconds (in terms of clean laps

I remember it like that too . I honestly thought the Toyota would catch the Beemer .....

[isynge]

This is thinking back a bit, but I seem to remember thinking that BMW might hang on - perhaps tinged by me wanting Martini to win it. Great race overall though, most notable for my wife allowing me out of the study (where I was confined for most of that summer with a thesis write up) to watch it from the morning on, simply because it was such an incredible race.

I still think we shouldn't have been quite so surprised by BMW's performance in '99 though. They certainly were no disgrace in qualifying and were able to run at the front - forcing Toyota to push very hard, and perhaps as a result leading to some of the problems they had.

Was it the best overall team performance? Probably not, but creditable nonetheless.