Goodwood Driving etiquette..

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by David McKinney

Plus they might not be invited back next year

And there you have it.

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by verglas

This seems to have opened an intersting debate. My bone of contention is that it would seem that people can drive like hooigans, damaging their own and others valuable machinery and not be penalised for it other than to not receive an invite next year. However if you were to do the same at an HSCC meeting say, the Stewards would reprimand and probably endorse your licence, quite justifiably. I just think that there seems to be a bit of double standards happening here..

interesting you mentioned HSCC because some hooligans got off several times last year, one particular entrant seemed to make a regular habit of pouring oil all over the track and getting away with it, in one race causing at least three crashes, and numerous spins, and then even had the audacity to blame someone else in park ferme whilst standing next to his car, pool of oil and all !

[Steve Wilkinson]

I suspect the gentle reminder, that was the letter, is but the velvet glove! Rather than name names the best policy is always to put the entries from the 'undesireables' to one side and when you have a full entry return the unwanted entry forms and cheques. This will give the correct message rather than saying that DRIVER A is a danger and is not wanted back.

[Eric Falce]

So many valid points.I had the good fortune to realise a lifelong ambition and drove a genuing Lotus nine at Portland last year.I was absolutley terrified of damagin that car which I consider to be part of our history and heritage.To see some of the antics at Goodwood last year,the damage to the irreplacible cars by a few redmist boneheads nearly made me weep.It seems that no one else has taken the steps needed to restict these people so good one Lord March in what ever capacity to get a measage to those concerned.You can have close racing without contact and it is much more fun for the true fan to watch,ok,so sometimes there is contact,but lets try and keep this to a minumum and enjoy Goodwood,who knows if we dont maybe some landowner may say the risk is to great and we will lose this great circuit again.

[gfm]

I think the damage done to irriplaceable cars - and drivers - is what March is banging on about. My beloved Goodwood was a dangerous place in its heyday and is just the same now. However the kudos attached to winning a race made so attractive with the popularity of all the modern Walt Disney trappings means the racing is getting extremely intense.
As soon as there are a few fatilities, it will get stopped I fear. Who will carry the can that day? Racing drivers and racing cars, being what they are, will do their cyclical thing and disappear up their own arses no doubt!

[Eric Falce]

Exactly my point.Virtualy non of these cars have any of the inbuilt safty features the modern day cars enjoy.It will only take a couple of well publicisied bad accidents for us to loose Goodwood,it IS a bloody fast circuit,is very easy to loose it without someone shunting you off as I found out in 1966,but as seen last year,I think quite a few drivers had there heads up there backsides whilst driving.Anyway,must have another go at Goodwood in case we do loose it.

[fangio]

Lord March's letter to the Goodwood events was very clear and very well put.
As he invites and entertains the drivers, he can decide who's going to be there.
On top of that the RAC rules allow supplementary regulations for an event so it can all be made to fit.

The original problem arose IMHO frtom the Clerk of the Course not acting strong enough towards the few drivers who do not understand the idea behind these events.
However the Clerk of the Course has to rely on reports form his track marshalls, who may have been "trained" at other races where banging cars is now the order of the day.

The Green/Dayton accident last year could have been very grave; an accident like that could stop it all. Better to act in time and get the drivers to race within the limits of decent behaviour.

[Al Weyman]

I agree with fangio if the Clerk etc had acted properly ths acton would not be necessary. I admire Lord March for his stand he is doing right thing.

[gfm]

Keep trying Al - your 'i's are missing, not your 'r's !!

[Al Weyman]

I need a new keyboard

[Slippy Diff]

I think we have to remember that Mr March is inviting the cars, not the drivers. Just another way to keep it an elitist event, for all his chums and those in the clique. If people are not supposed to 'race' or drive at their maximum, he should just stick to the Festival of Speed. "Drivers should not race off into the distance, but find someone to race!!" I am incredulous if that is the case. Also, who the hell wants Gerry Marshall (for example) driving their car? I very much doubt that he, or any other of the 'celebrity' drivers are gonna have much respect for your precious race car.

[Fan]

Originally Posted by Slippy Diff

I think we have to remember that Mr March is inviting the cars, not the drivers. Just another way to keep it an elitist event, for all his chums and those in the clique.

I don't think that's completely fair - I am not one of Lord March's "chums", nor am I in an "elite" group. He wants rare and interesting racing cars to attend his event. These cars tend to be expensive and as a result you get a lot of wealthy people being asked. The problem comes in when some people believe that Ron Dennis and Frank Williams are keeping an eye on the results to fill next years F1 grid...

[Slippy Diff]

Originally Posted by Fan

I don't think that's completely fair - I am not one of Lord March's "chums", nor am I in an "elite" group. He wants rare and interesting racing cars to attend his event. These cars tend to be expensive and as a result you get a lot of wealthy people being asked. The problem comes in when some people believe that Ron Dennis and Frank Williams are keeping an eye on the results to fill next years F1 grid...

He is recreating the racing that took part at Goodwood in the 50's and 60's. I reckon that 99% of the cars that turned up to race at Goodwood 50 years ago were of the more humble variety and could not only be raced if driven by a celebrity.

[Fan]

Originally Posted by Slippy Diff

He is recreating the racing that took part at Goodwood in the 50's and 60's. I reckon that 99% of the cars that turned up to race at Goodwood 50 years ago were of the more humble variety and could not only be raced if driven by a celebrity.

Fair point, but I presume the reason that Lord March asks for certain famous drivers to attend is that it will get more people through the gate. TI reckon about 95% of the drivers who race at Goodwood aren't celebrities...

[Slippy Diff]

Originally Posted by Fan

TI reckon about 95% of the drivers who race at Goodwood aren't celebrities...

Fair point! But a lot of them are his 'cronies'. I would like to see it like the old days and all other race meetings. Open it up to first come, first served, but be really strict about scrutineering the cars and make sure they are to FIA spec. Also make the owners remove ALL stickers except numbers and the stickers of their relevant car club .e.g. AMOC or BARC. No bloody christmas trees on wheels and you could have some quality grids. There are some fantastic championships for historic cars, just invite them them along.

I still say that the elitist attitude does nothing for the 'them and us' that exists in historic racing.

[D-Type]

I think some people are missing the point here. The whole Historic racing movement benefits from the interest created by the Goodwood Revival.
Does anybody honestly believe the Historic scene would be improved if the Revival was cancelled and not held again?

[Slippy Diff]

Originally Posted by D-Type

I think some people are missing the point here. The whole Historic racing movement benefits from the interest created by the Goodwood Revival.
Does anybody honestly believe the Historic scene would be improved if the Revival was cancelled and not held again?

In my opinion the Goodwood events were jumping on the back of the revitalised and booming historic racing scene that had seen a huge leap in popularity throughout the nineties. It is not the other way around.

[David McKinney]

I've been rading Slippy's comments with interest.
Can he confirm that he has actually attended a Revival meeting?

[D-Type]

Originally Posted by Slippy Diff

In my opinion the Goodwood events were jumping on the back of the revitalised and booming historic racing scene that had seen a huge leap in popularity throughout the nineties. It is not the other way around.

It doesn't matter which is the chicken and which is the egg.
Does the Revival make the world of Historic Racing a better place?
If you think it is, then the next question is will Lord March's letter (which we have established is in addition to the normal RACMSA sanctions) lead to a better revival Meeting this year?
If you don't think it is, then ignore it and enough people do so maybe it will go away.

[zefarelly]

I think they both complement each other, Goodwood has used the growing historic scene to get the pick of the bunch, and draw the crowds, the good management and 'timewarp' thinking have made it a public success, the historic fraternity in turn benefits due to better support and publicity, everyones a winner, there may be a few short sighted views, butthat will always happen

I for one would be chuffed to bits to get an invite, it would mean so much in so many ways, not least because we've built the whole car ourself, its my local track, we've built it as a replica of something tha no longer exists and had one of its finest hours at Goodwood. It would be a superb tribute to my late father who helped me so much as well. Whether I 'fit in' or am in the crowd or a cronie or not is totally irrellevant, I don't think I am, but what difference does it make . . . . one thing we havent done is try and buy our way in to something in the hope of using it as a moneyspinner.

[Slippy Diff]

Originally Posted by David McKinney

I've been rading Slippy's comments with interest.
Can he confirm that he has actually attended a Revival meeting?

Why?

[David McKinney]

Was wondering what you were basing your views on, that's all

[David McKinney]

Originally Posted by Slippy Diff

I would like to see it like the old days and all other race meetings. Open it up to first come, first served, but be really strict about scrutineering the cars and make sure they are to FIA spec. Also make the owners remove ALL stickers except numbers and the stickers of their relevant car club .e.g. AMOC or BARC. No bloody christmas trees on wheels and you could have some quality grids. There are some fantastic championships for historic cars, just invite them them along.

That approach is used by many other race organisers
Compare the fields they attract with what you can see at Goodwood and you have the answer

[Slippy Diff]

Originally Posted by David McKinney

Was wondering what you were basing your views on, that's all

My views are based on my experiences of historic racing. I raced for quite a few years throughout Europe and at some of the best events there are available with, without being big headed, some success. I never raced at Goodwood.

Goodwood events such as the hillclimb and the race meeting did not start the resurgence of historic racing in the UK and Europe. Those meetings are great for the spectator, but the whole issue of getting an entry because you are a celebrity or that you own a car that they would like to see on track (you will not get to race it though, that pleasure will go to some over egoed touring car driver) or that simply your face fits with the rest of the in crowd.

I had a friend who was asked not 'to race' at a high profile historic meeting because it would embarass the Ferrari owners if he ****ed off into the distance in his 'inferior' car. In defiance he went home. If Charles March wants the cars not to race but put on a show, he should stick to the Festival of Speed.

[stevebrown]

Originally Posted by Slippy Diff

In my opinion the Goodwood events were jumping on the back of the revitalised and booming historic racing scene that had seen a huge leap in popularity throughout the nineties. It is not the other way around.

I think you'll find it was the other way round. Lord March started the Festival to raise money to bring the circuit back to life. He had this planned for years. to make the first meeting he wanted cars that had raced there (this is nearly always the case even today). Most of the cars seen at that first meeting hadn't raced for years. The Donington museum was cleared out. A museum in Holland dug out it's collection of Formula Junior. Someone told me they didn't think there were any left. After that FJ became a popular championship. Because of the rare cars Lord March was able to persuade the owners to bring out of retirement this may seem like eliteism but if it wasn't for him you would never have seen the £6m Ferrari '63 250GTO. or the 11 remaining Jaguar Lightweights!

Yes I have seen some bad driving at Goodwood. We all want to see the cars raced and not an "after you Claude" procession but drivers should have respect for the cars they are driving whether they own them or not. What some of them forget is they are at Silverstone with its huge run off areas. they are at a track with little run off and grass banking. If they want to keep the unique characteristics of Goodwood then they should be sensible. If it means a driver not getting invited then so be it.

Steve B