Safety issues

[Al Weyman]

I would rather run off on to a bit of tarmac than slam into a tyre wall, whats the matter with you guys?

[GORDON STREETER]

I used to spectate at Brands in the late 50s /60s and there was very seldom a meeting (cars and bikes) that went by without somebody being killed or seriously injured. It certainly dulled the enthusiasm of the massive (even at club meetings) crowds. I was a witness to the Chris Airey crash when it rolled on the bottom straight ,and it will live with me forever. As for seat fittings when I was doing the ICS series I remember a certain Camero having a fair shunt at Thruxton that broke the seat out of the floor that was fitted with "rivinuts" !

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I would rather run off on to a bit of tarmac than slam into a tyre wall, whats the matter with you guys?

not often I say this but I am with you Al on this!!

[terence]

Me too,just because these run off areas are there,it does not mean there is less skill involved in keeping it between the lines.There are some kerbs that have to be used,not just at Spa,just to keep the momentum going.As long as all four do not cross them,then wheres the harm.There is not one driver out there who could claim that he has never used them,in some cases,they will actually help you stay on the tarmac.

[LYNX]

Another safety issue is fire retardent underclothes - rarely checked in the UK. At the Oldtimers GP Nurburgring last year one of the FJ drivers was spotted by a marshall wearing a normal polo shirt under his race suit in assembly and had to change down to his underpants in (full view) to pull on some donated from a fellow competitor (new & unused). Just made the race by the skin of his teeth. Even with fire retardent underclothes you can still be burnt but not as badly or as quickly as without, or God forbid when wearing items of manmade fibres.

[terence]

Good point Lynx,it,s supprising the amount of drivers who do not use the prescribed underware,quite a stupid thing to do when you consider that Race Suits do still get hot in a fire,any man made fibres underneath will shrivel and melt and bond onto the skin.Far better not to have anything on,the burns will heal quicker without nylon embedded as well!!

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I would rather run off on to a bit of tarmac than slam into a tyre wall, whats the matter with you guys?

"Run-off" is one thing but I was talking about what happens when the Run-off runs out.

For run-off, there are places where gravel is good and there are places where tarmac is good. Sadly this is complicated because different types of accident can happen at the same place and would benefit from different sorts of protection. Add to that the complication that bikes benefit from different things from cars and you can appreciate the difficulty which circuits have in pleaseing everybody.

Regards

Jim

[JimW]

Originally Posted by LYNX

. . . or God forbid when wearing items of manmade fibres.

Yes, but don't forget that Nomex (a type of nylon) is a man-made fibre. (With the exception of asbestos and specially treated wool/cotton, so are almost all fire-resistant materials.)

Regards

Jim

[rogerwills]

When I did my licence at the Silverstone race school one of the instructors told a story of a guy involved in a fire who had a tee-shirt on with a logo on it. It melted into his skin and he now has that logo scarred into his skin for life. I remember this every time I get changed and it makes me very conscious of what I'm wearing!

[simon drabble]

hope they pay him sponsorship for carrying their logo....

[LYNX]

Please consider spectator safety! I cannot believe how many people walking around the paddock are oblivious of a race car moving to assembly behind them, this is worse at meetings such as Goodwood where you have non motor racing fans present, (My Elva 100 came with a horn). Also the danger of hot exhaust pipes on single seaters and children wanting to touch....!

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

275 GTB-4 I dont know if you race or not but whilst of course you are right it is all about trying to eliminate unneccessary risks. This involves spannering the car properly before the race, wearing the right protective kit and finallly (in my mind) wearing belts and having a rollbar.
If I race 10/10ths with belts and a rolbar against 8/10s without I am making a better spectacle for the spectator so everyone should be happy.

Simon...its all a matter of perspective....if I see a magnificent Cooper Climax being driven in a spirited manner (probably 9/10s) with no ROPS - I don't think it has been poorly spannered....I think its all about about exercising this magnificent old machinery and putting it through its paces....it is a more modern notion to solely concentrate on doing everything possible safety wise in order to make good lap times...the old stagers prided themselves on total control and smoothness to win the day.

Therefore, I would argue your point about making a better spectacle...to me, sometimes just seeing the car on the track used in anger is reward enough.

[zapparacing]

I'm absolutly 100% in favor of making vintage/historic cars more safe. I can remember about 3 or 4 years ago my father and I were doing a historic enduro in his Chevron B16. Leading the race, he flipped the car, landed on its wheels and then got "T-Boned" at about 85-90 mph by a Jaguar E-Type Lightwt. When he first purchased the car, he had the smarts to weld in a bar from the roll-bar to the side pod "God forbid anything ever happened." Well something did happen and without a doubt, it saved his life. The car was totaled, but as we know racecars can be rebuilt, and it was. You cannot rebuild a life. Yes, I agree w/ everyones post's on here about racing being dangerous etc. but it's also 2007...we're not racing for money, just glory. Doing something for safety purposes won't de-value the car or ruin its orignality, but it will save your life, if something does ever happen. Just my two cents.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by rogerwills

When I did my licence at the Silverstone race school one of the instructors told a story of a guy involved in a fire who had a tee-shirt on with a logo on it. It melted into his skin and he now has that logo scarred into his skin for life. I remember this every time I get changed and it makes me very conscious of what I'm wearing!

You have convinced me, underwear on shopping list for next season!

[terence]

I think we can only go so far as regards safty in the paddock Lynx,after all,are children not the responsibility of their parents?.Also,one thing that must be enforced is the stopping of these kid,s flying about on scooters/pit bike,s,they are a bigger liability than drivers going to/from collecting areas etc. It is always mentioned on Race Entry Form,s,but would appear to be largly ingnored,I dont care that "They are Bored",if that is the case ,then leave them at home.The respective parents should be threatened with exclusion from the event,perhaps that would make them take notice!

[Eddy V]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

You have convinced me, underwear on shopping list for next season!

I guess you mean fireproof underwear Al?

[GBRM]

Is there underwear so we don't scare the kids?

[midgetman]

I suspect the logo-ed for life story is an urban myth but if it keeps Eddy & I in a job, who are we to complain ;-) What story can we start next Eddy? Racesuits should never be washed and must be changed every six months to retain their fireproofness?

But joking aside, there's been some developments lately that mean there's some seriously protective stuff out there, once again it's down to the cost/risk ratio. Take CarbonX for instance, it's got some seriously good claims, very impressive performance, but it's a touch expensive.

[terence]

And not very comfortable! The seam,s tend to be a bit on the rough side.But as you say,it,s very good protection.

[Eddy V]

Seams? Rough? You weren't wearing them inside out, were you?

[terence]

Originally Posted by Eddy V

Seams? Rough? You weren't wearing them inside out, were you?

No Eddy,I got them fromGPR when they first came out,never been overly impressed though.Anyway ,the lable doe,s go on the outside,does,nt it?

[GBRM]

What suit would you guys recommend as a basic FIA requirement at a reasonable cost? Unfortunately Mr Neal seems to have a smaller bottom than I and I need to buy a new suit over the winter.

[midgetman]

Eddy & I would recommend AWS as we're both dealers of theirs ;-) Plus it helps the balance of payments to buy British, don't you know old chap?

Equally it depends on your shape. Sometimes the Italian suits aren't that comfortable for the fuller "UK" figure, and the legs are often a bit short for us taller chaps. AWS has just had a re-vamp of its sizes to take into account the changing shape of UK drivers.

Italian suits tend to be cheaper, mass-produced in the far East or far South to a price. However, the FIA logo is a guarantee of quality and it's down to personal preference of fit etc. Natch, normally the more you pay the better protection you get but that's not a cast-iron rule.

[Eddy V]

Agree with that completely Max. Go for AWS.
Who is going to sell it?


Seriously, depends on your own choice. Some drivers will go for the posh ones like the one using the star logo, but those suits are usually overpriced and never or hardly made to measure is available. The Italian ones are not too bad, but everybody wears one.

I always say the following: like your food, buy local.


Ok Nick, how much did I earn just now?

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by Eddy V

Agree with that completely Max. Go for AWS.
Who is going to sell it?

Seriously, depends on your own choice. Some drivers will go for the posh ones like the one using the star logo, but those suits are usually overpriced and never or hardly made to measure is available. The Italian ones are not too bad, but everybody wears one.

I always say the following: like your food, buy local.


Ok Nick, how much did I earn just now?

I don't want some tacky suit advertised by a son of somone who thought he was a superstar and as such he must be too even though he has dine f all......sh1t, maybe I should have one of those Alpenstars suits!!