DMN Silverstone 31st May

[chezza]

In the first year the Seats ran in the Seat championship without wings.

[martinlabatts]

Originally Posted by chezza

In the first year the Seats ran in the Seat championship without wings.

but the last two years the seat run in DMs with the same wings and had no complaints

now suddenly they are an issue

[golfwidow]

Rules are rules and are enforcable.

[pdd144c]

Rules are indeed rules, so lets see the Sapphire and Audi TT remove their ventui devices for Silverstone

The Seat was very unstable on high speed corners without the spoiler fitted, we did more testing after Snetterton at Silverstone GP with similar results. I can't afford to spend hours testing the car without it to make it handle nicely again. If the rules are changed for next year I'm sure we will all return, but lets face it I'll just be making up the numbers and helping Rod get more points if I do anymore races this year!

[martinlabatts]

Originally Posted by golfwidow

Rules are rules and are enforcable.

yes they are


but how how many rules are flaunted


while on this subject can someone sort this silly rule out for next year please

the four or eight injector rule is five years out of date,

eight injector plenum fitted but we are only useing four stuff

the hole reason for fitting a rs500 eight injector plenum is to flow 500 bhp with its bigger plenum/ elbow/throttle body

most top cosse cars are running four very large injectors,

it would be easyer to class cars on there turbo size

class B should be up to a T3 size turbo 2.0 litre cosse

T4 size turbo or bigger class A






O and ban all four wheel drive cars lol

[snowen250]

hmm
This rule thing is dragging on a bit.
As somone who really enjoys watching DMN races (Go Bill + Lee!) it is also a shame.
I love the series as much for its eclectic mix of cars as i do for the close racing.
As for the SEAT's spoilers, on one hand rules are rules, and should be enforced. But then they do look odd without them, and as people have said could be dangerous and would be a shame to lose them.
I am confused as to what class they actually go in, is it B without wings and A with them? Obviously they are outclassed in A, so why not tack on a class B.2 or something for them? It just seems a shame to lose some great cars from a great series.
Just a thought, dont want to tread on any toes
Simon

[chezza]

Its a shame this has only been picked up on now, but thats life. Other cars will be picked up on other things through out the season I'm sure...and who knows whats going to happen with all the weights that were taken at Snetterton...

Yes they can run in B with no wings and A with the wings. There has been no problem with the rules thus far, ok they may not have been enforced so closely, but with the success we have enjoyed it has enabled us to run on the Great and British Package quite a few times this season, and with the comes a stricter enforcement of the rules. Also...why should we change the rules to just suit certain people? This has been mentioned by a couple of people..."oh well you'll just change the rules for 2009 so the Seats wings fit"...why should we???

[BertMk2]

Whilst I would agree that you shouldn't just change the rules to suit certain people (and a mid season rule change is out of the question) - if the situation merits a re-think then surely it makes sense to consider changes for the next season.

As an example I believe that Clio cup cars were originally class A cars but the rules were tweaked and now they're in class B - a sensible move as clearly they're way out of their depth in A. The same goes for the Seats - a minor rule change will allow the cars to run in the class that makes most logical sense. Class A should be purely the reserve of the 4wd, the outlandish and the uber powerful - a shopping trolley with an oversized appendage is out of place in Class A. It would be a shame to lose a large number of decent cars and drivers over something so easily resolved.

(no offence meant to the Seat drivers - just using the shopping trolley remark to make a point )

[kjw]

Hi Chezza

Purely as a matter of interest, will the weights of the cars that were measured at Snetterton be made available.

[chezza]

You can request your own weight, I am not sure that the entire list will be made public however, I know that it was passed to the eligibility scruitineer.

It is possible that we will have a rethink i.e like we did with the Clio, but it is not guaranteed and people should not automatically assume that we will change it. However all of this is off topic and has been talked about to death, we are supposed to be talking about Silverstone.

For an update we now have 40 cars for Silverstone, but we will take reserves up until the end of next week to ensure a full grid.

[BertMk2]

I might actually make it to Silverstone I really haven't seen enough DMN this season so far (one day at Brands is it for me so far ). Too many long haul 2 dayers for me so far this year. Is the entrylist online anywhere yet? (Found it )

[golfwidow]

i'm looking forward to Silverstone, hope the car goes ok, hope the weather is nice, don't forget the suntan lotion!

[chezza]

So do I Kel!

I hope this meeting is as good as Snetterton, that was a great weekend!

[martinlabatts]

Yes we change the rules to just suit certain people? This has been mentioned by a couple of people..."oh well you'll just change the rules for 2009 so the Seats wings fit"...why should we???[/QUOTE]


while i agree this subject has been done to death

one or two points from your reply

the rules in past years have been changed in some ways to make racing more competive, hence the clio rule changed for (one car)

why is the seat leaons no different with five seats have been in the championship should we not exspect the same service

can you seriouly exspect people to run in a class just to make the numbers up?

with no hope of getting anywhere,

the current rules states : cars can be moved class up or down by the organisers

[bdwoody]

wheres my pram !!!!!!

[graham bahr]

the rules in past years have been changed in some ways to make racing more competive, hence the clio rule changed for (one car)

the rule change was because it showed a sequential gearbox wasnt enough of an advantage to make a sequential gearboxed car automatically class A, incidentally the clio which highlighted that issue only did a couple of rounds early last year, its driver then swapped to a conventional gearboxed peugeot anyway, and the clio that came out this year is again a totally different car.

the current rules states : cars can be moved class up or down by the organisers

true but such a move would have to be justifiable to the MSA, the championship stewards and the eligability scruitieers who have already catagorically ruled that out, so it cant be done.

interestingly after bolting the spoiler back on paul went all of 0.001 faster in race one than in practise so the spoilers cant be making that much difference.

as for changing the rules to suit the spoilers in 2009 it already has been discussed and no doubt will be again, but there are a couple of seat drivers who have quietly accepted there spoilers did not comply with the rules and are changing there cars to suit, it would be rather a smack in the teeth if we then turned round and changed the rules to allow the origonal spoilers wouldnt it?

[graham bahr]

Originally Posted by bdwoody

wheres my pram !!!!!!

did you leave it at silverstone on a thursday night

from what i hear X sport made up 80% of the grid

[bdwoody]

APPARENTLY SO GRAHAM, I DIDN'T GO COZ SOME OF US HAVE TO WORK FOR A LIVING AS YOU KNOW ONLY TOO WELL.WITH THAT MANY CARS A GOOD HAUL OF CASH MUST HAVE BEEN HAD!!!

[pdd144c]

Originally Posted by graham bahr

interestingly after bolting the spoiler back on paul went all of 0.001 faster in race one than in practise so the spoilers cant be making that much difference.

as for changing the rules to suit the spoilers in 2009 it already has been discussed and no doubt will be again, but there are a couple of seat drivers who have quietly accepted there spoilers did not comply with the rules and are changing there cars to suit, it would be rather a smack in the teeth if we then turned round and changed the rules to allow the origonal spoilers wouldnt it?

I gained over 1.5 seconds in the first race with it back on, 1.22.049 in practise and 1.20.480 first race out. Andy Radcliffe told me that the wording of the rule will be looked at for 2009, which in doing so will put the cars back where they belong in Class B.

POWERnights was great, was nice to see the grids reversed, meant loads of overtaking. Beat the boss too, for probably the first and last time!

[STEVED]

My quali was 1.24.454, Race 1 122.815 and race 3 1.21.542 so i gained 3 seconds this would have been alot more had my turbo stayed on.
This gain in time was due to me getting used to the circuit and the car not adding or romoving parts from the car.

[andybg40]

Originally Posted by STEVED

My quali was 1.24.454, Race 1 122.815 and race 3 1.21.542 so i gained 3 seconds this would have been alot more had my turbo stayed on.
This gain in time was due to me getting used to the circuit and the car not adding or romoving parts from the car.

So basically your saying that the Seat got quicker due to the driver getting quicker, which makes sense. That is down to confidence, most people go quicker over a race weekend as their confidence builds. The thing that you or I, or anyone else who doesn't drive one of the Seat's won't know, is just how much confidence they are losing by not having the spoiler. Seeing that a couple of the Seat drivers have been quoted here saying that the car is not so stable without the spoiler and their times have been slower too, i guess that adding or removing parts from a car developed with them DOES make a difference.

So instead of repeating yourself over and over about your turbo falling off and this costing you the race, on this forum and others, how about you ask to drive one of the Seat's with the spoiler on and off and compare the cars handling ability and your times. In fact, all the drivers who think that removing the spoiler doesn't affect the car should do this before giving any opinions.

I also get fed up with people on this forum championing cheap racing, and how they can't afford to do other events, and then turn round and say 'go and develop the Seat to run without the spoiler'. So it's ok for the Seat owners to go and spend hundreds of pounds testing and developing the car, but when someone else comes on here and suggests racing elsewhere they get shot down with the 'it's too expensive, we can't afford it' card. It just makes me laugh because half of everything you read on here is very selfish and biased to one series and a handful of drivers in it.

To finish, I'm sick of reading about this spoiler issue, it's all very obvious to me why the rule has been enforced this season. Andy Thompson in Seat very nearly won the championship last year, now the Seat threat has been removed, it's as simple as that!

Rant over, i'm looking forward to the amusing responses.

[graham bahr]

it's all very obvious to me why the rule has been enforced this season. Andy Thompson in Seat very nearly won the championship last year, now the Seat threat has been removed, it's as simple as that!

sorry thats a complete load of rubbish, the eligability scruitieers have a free hand to do what they like, previously drivers have been asked to weld metal back in there cars where it was missing, others have been asked to fit, lights after snett another non seat driver was asked to remove an areo device, another one has been asked to chance his cars ground clearance, ultimatly everyone else has accepted rules are rules and complied without *****ing to all and sundry, it really is time to move on

[jonbryant]

Can someone please wake me when we've finished talking about wings and perhaps we can talk about one of the most exciting saloon championships in the country?

Thanks.

[bdwoody]

I WAS WONDERING WHERE YOU HAD GONE JON ...

[tallguy_2]

andybg40 i and many others probably couldnt agree with you more on every point you've just made.

From what could have been "the most exciting saloon championships in the country" is going to be fast losing credability, after looking like the series has now lost:
new seat leons,
3 or more ex seat cupra cup cars
outclassed new and old clios

after being at thruxton TOCA today people must want to see these cars.

after all more entrants make it cheaper fees and now the lydden prices are on a hike and you want to fill two grids thats welcome money your saying no thanks too. logic anyone?

cant beat handicapping and success ballast, seems to work elsewhere!

on a more positive note what i came to say was, does anybody want a travel lodge room the night before silverstone?
PM me