[LM24] Le Mans Test Days?

[Aslak Vind]

Often Paul Ricard is the place, with the long straights and the LM spec turns.

Audi often test there, as do Peugeot. So no, LM is not the only place to do so. But hiring HTTP is not for everyone.

[mattcat]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Is LM itself the only place to test?

Pro teams such as you mention should have tested, or run simulations. If they screw up, too bad, come back next year, and race a full season to sort your car out.

Did Cadillac race enough to prepare themselves for 2002 with a new car? They only raced Sebring pre-LM, and showed themselves to not be prepared there either... though post LM, they did run some races, and finally showed some pace and reliability... too little, too late.

As far as Epsilon is concerned.. it would appear that they found their balance on the Thursday of qualifying, still being off the pace on Wednesday. This isn't a charity show, either you are competitive, or not... just like every other race... There aren't weeks to prepare for Spa, or Sebring, or... You'll also notice that the top teams NEVER have these types of issues, the ones that are truely at the sharp end of the field.

+1

[The359]

Maybe the ACO should consider making the April LMS test full circuit, once again leaving it optional to teams to arrive.

This wont help the American teams, but it will still allow teams to test.

[full throttle]

so lets limit the field to 'sharp end' types only. audi and peugoet. the smaller teams need not apply. that would be great until audi and peugoet dump sportscar racing, then you have nothing. fairly short sighted in my opinion, but to each his own. And one can rent sebring for testing, not possible with le mans obviously.

[mattcat]

Originally Posted by Javi

Second consecutive answer
not very often, but spanish Angel Burgueño crashed the ASM Lola during test day 2006 and did not qualify. He was and is a proven driver but could not race that year. ASM had to look for other driver and managed to get Warren Hughes for race week.

I agree most of the times a good driver will qualify anyhow, but imagine also your "good car and team" has problems and you, good driver, can simply not run with the car. These things can happen...

Yes, these things can happen, and if they do, then it's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

Originally Posted by full throttle

so lets limit the field to 'sharp end' types only. audi and peugoet. the smaller teams need not apply. that would be great until audi and peugoet dump sportscar racing, then you have nothing. fairly short sighted in my opinion, but to each his own. And one can rent sebring for testing, not possible with le mans obviously.

It's more of a matter of limiting the field to teams which arrive ready to compete. Seriously, you have all year to prepare for Le Mans, if you can't get your car / drivers sorted out by the time the race rolls around, you don't deserve to be there in the first place. Why should enormous expense be incurred by everyone so that we can get a couple of teams on the grid which will retire after three hours anyway? How does that improve the quality of the race?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by mattcat

It's more of a matter of limiting the field to teams which arrive ready to compete. Seriously, you have all year to prepare for Le Mans, if you can't get your car / drivers sorted out by the time the race rolls around, you don't deserve to be there in the first place. Why should enormous expense be wasted by everyone so that we can get a couple of teams on the grid which will retire after three hours anyway? How does that improve the quality of the race?

Hmm, lets see. It improves the quality of the race in that it keeps to the oft forgotten or ignored (by some) "Spirit of Le Mans". This is a race which still harkens back to its roots. Come one, come all, let us test to see who is the mightiest in the land! Or maybe we should just run it to ground like Grand Prix Racing or The Indianapolis 500, which are mere shadows of what they used to be.


L.P.

[mattcat]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Hmm, lets see. It improves the quality of the race in that it keeps to the oft forgotten or ignored (by some) "Spirit of Le Mans". This is a race which still harkens back to its roots. Come one, come all, let us test to see who is the mightiest in the land! Or maybe we should just run it to ground like Grand Prix Racing or The Indianapolis 500, which are mere shadows of what they used to be.

Yea, come one, come all, so long as you can get your car sorted and your drivers can make a few laps at speed before the race begins...

I do not ignore, nor have I forgotten the spirit of Le Mans. My point is get your act together before you get there.

[full throttle]

For a team never having been there, the test day is very useful regardless of team quality. And as an american team there is almost no way to 'prepare for lemans' when you have different engine specs, aero specs, not to mention there is no track in the US capable of simulating it. Last year the team I have knowledge of fitted a lemans spec engine and on the long straights it started purging the oil system. There was no way to prepare for that until you actually run 3-4 straights for long periods at hight RPM all within 140 secs or so. Whether it was engine or oil tank was never really determined, but without test day it would have all had to been sorted on qual days much to the detriment of drivers trying to learn a track that is unavailable for testing at any time during the year even if the funds were available to get there. if you've been there before its better but anything can still happen as demonstrated by one of the peugoets this year.

[Javi]

we would have to be team managers (i am not!!!) to see if the reduced cost of not going to test day compensates the lack of available time to sort out the car in le mans configuration. Not every team has the money to extensively simulate/test low drag configuration prior to the race. It will be good to see the reactions for/against ACO´s decision by the teams

[TWK]

One of the best team managers/engineers in the racing world (sports cars and F1 and won Le Mans overall) wrote to me today with this thought:

Hi, looks like we are going in the right direction with the cancellation of the test weekend.

Coming from someone with such a background and currently responsible for a major racing operation, I'll have to conclude that the cost difference is important enough to at least be "in the right direction."

(Our correspondence recently has been in regard to the cost of racing, among other topics.)

[full throttle]

I would agree that coming from someone with such formidable experience/record and probable access to significant financing, the test weekend for him is probably merely a formality at this point. Everyone's situation is unique.

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by TWK

One of the best team managers/engineers in the racing world (sports cars and F1 and won Le Mans overall) wrote to me today...

He wrote to you too? Dang, I thought I was special...

Originally Posted by full throttle

I would agree that coming from someone with such formidable experience/record and probable access to significant financing, the test weekend for him is probably merely a formality at this point. Everyone's situation is unique.

If Le Mans is the pinnacle of sports car racing, then one would think that the teams racing there should all be at a level where its just a formality for all of them. If a single day of testing is the difference between make or break, maybe a better vetting process is required?

[full throttle]

The difference between 'make or break' in motor racing is often measured in tenths, much less days. Obviously, if Audi, peugoet, aston martin, corvette choose to avail themselves of the test day they must see potential gain despite thousands of hours on the computer dyno, and months pounding around simulation tracks, it must not be too bad of an idea. The chance for a smaller team to be able to run at the actual venue is precious. To tell you the truth, i don't see the argument here? Test day is good. If it wasn't, no one would go. My position remains the same as I believe any small team from America would have. With all the costs attendant in going, the savings in not running for one day are insignificant in comparison to the data and experience collected.

If you want to look at the selection criteria, that's a different discussion.

[Sarthe82]

Originally Posted by full throttle

Test day is good. If it wasn't, no one would go.

The test day was mandatory, if for no other reason than that's where you qualified your drivers.

Originally Posted by original article

This decision is nothing exceptional in the history of the Le Mans 24 Hours as the test day has not always been on the ACO calendar.
The test day before the race week itself was held for the first time in 1959 as preliminary practice and continued until 1974. It was suspended because of the first petrol crisis.
It was reinstated for 1986 and 1987, and then cancelled again before being part of the event in 1993.
According to the years this session took place in March, April or May and since 2005 in June.
It lasted one two or three days and was called practice day, preliminary practice, pre-qualifying and test day since 2005.

Everyone seemed to cope just fine in those years, they do have a total of eight hours practice over the weekend plus a morning warm up after all. Think some people need to take a reality check and wake up to the financial maelstrom we're really in, economies have to be made and the last thing the ACO wants is anything threatening the the stability of the race itself.

[isynge]

If, as Tom says, the teams themselves see this as a good thing then that's all the argument I need, and of course, it is easy to forget that there are plenty of years in Le Mans history when there wasn't a test day.

As far as raising the vetting process - I'm pretty certain now is absolutely not the time to do it. I suspect there's going to be enough bleakness come 2009 without having a "small but quality grid" (as the official review video would almost certainly call it) in June.

[werner]

There are tracks where you can simulate the long straights and hard breaking with low downforce. In Europe, Paul Ricard, Monza or the test track at the Lausitzring would do, and in the USA road America has something to offer, and if thats not enough you can test at a large oval, and put some chicanes in the corners.
Maybe even an airfield will do, where you can run up and down the runway.

[Tom908V12]

According to last Endurance-Info article, it looks like almost no team knew the decision of ACO outside of media, and only Peugeot-Sport and Michelin expressed regret of that decision

[full throttle]

Most teams aren't going to issue a press release about a cancelled test day. I know two that are not pleased at all. As I said, you've eliminated a few hours of running and a few days of hotels (most of which are already committed with guaranteed length stays). It probably saves the ACO more than the teams. Will they reduce the entry fee apropriately? We shall see.

As far as Rd America simulating Lemans, not really. Its a mid to hi-downforce track contrary to what many people think.

[Hugewally]

I think it saves the teams a whole lot more than what you think.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

I think it saves the teams a whole lot more than what you think.

I think you're right and in the current climate any savings will be welcomed by the teams. I do, however, have serious concerns about the wisdom of this decision in a year when such dramatic changes to rear wing configuration have been enforced. It's well documented how Peugeot are struggling to get to grips with it. That's a big budget manufacturer with the resources to work through the problem, but what are the implications for the teams with lesser budgets/resources at their disposal?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

I think it saves the teams a whole lot more than what you think.

I'm pretty certain he knows what the costs are and how they break down.

[Happy Snapper]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

I think it saves the teams a whole lot more than what you think.

Yes it does and the ACO charge a considerable fee to stay and "test" on the Bugatti!

Dr Wolfgang Ullrich said recently in an interview published on for SCP's

"The ACO announced just two days later that the Le Mans test day is cancelled. Gone, at a stroke, is Audi’s opportunity to run its new car for eight hours on the full circuit. The first time that the R15 will run at Le Mans is the new free practice session on Wednesday. Advantage Peugeot, and by some huge margin!"

[Aslak Vind]

Open for interpretation

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by Happy Snapper

Yes it does and the ACO charge a considerable fee to stay and "test" on the Bugatti!

Dr Wolfgang Ullrich said recently in an interview published on for SCP's

"The ACO announced just two days later that the Le Mans test day is cancelled. Gone, at a stroke, is Audi’s opportunity to run its new car for eight hours on the full circuit. The first time that the R15 will run at Le Mans is the new free practice session on Wednesday. Advantage Peugeot, and by some huge margin!"

Sounds like Audi is already laying the groundwork for their excuses when they don't win the 24 hours this year.

DK

[Bentley03]

The answer, of course, would have been for the ACO to compromise and make the Test Day optional in 2009. Sure, they would take a financial hit for closing the public roads and staffing/administrating the day, but at least those with a desire (and budget) to prepare properly for next year's race would have the opportunity to do so. Advantage the factories? Of course, but we know they're going to win the overall anyway, so I don't see a problem.