Plans for 'world engine'

[Félix]

How many proposals have they come up with for F1 in the last years? 2.4 V8s? Really small turbocharged jewels? Spec one from Cosworth? Unlimited and efficient energy recuperation? What next?

I don't even know which ones have been cancelled and which is supposed to be coming up in a not-too-distant-future... Not credible at all; I can't wait for the day it will all fall apart.

[deggis]

Current V8s for three more years. Standard engine idea was based on the current engine configuration. Turbos - originally 2011 was mentioned a lot but now likely 2013. And obviously the configuration of the turbo formula is everything but decided.

[ascarracinguk]

dont like the idea, yes for certain classes its ok, like for btcc, wrc, saloon racing, single seaters, they can all have the same engine in a various state of tune, but for things like nascar, sportscar racing and formula 1/irl its a dumb idea!....dont like the sound of 2 litre sportscars certainly...can you imagine a corvette with a pinto in.....i dont think so!

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

dont like the idea, yes for certain classes its ok, like for btcc, wrc, saloon racing, single seaters, they can all have the same engine in a various state of tune, but for things like nascar, sportscar racing and formula 1/irl its a dumb idea!....dont like the sound of 2 litre sportscars certainly...can you imagine a corvette with a pinto in.....i dont think so!

As we have said, it would be for LMP not GT cars.

[jc_nl]

Fine Ginger have it your way, the Panoz LMP-1 with an 4 cyl turbo???
Or, a bit more up to date, an Aston P1 with a 4 cyl turbo??

No thanks, one brand (Mazda probably) having a go with one would be great, but that would be enough.

Diversity is what makes (endurance) racing fun. In F1 it was great to have a screaming Ferrari against a rumbling Ford-Cosworth, not the same sound for all cars competing. Same goes for all non-spec series, enduraceseries most of all.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by jc_nl

Fine Ginger have it your way, the Panoz LMP-1 with an 4 cyl turbo???
Or, a bit more up to date, an Aston P1 with a 4 cyl turbo??

No thanks, one brand (Mazda probably) having a go with one would be great, but that would be enough.

Diversity is what makes (endurance) racing fun. In F1 it was great to have a screaming Ferrari against a rumbling Ford-Cosworth, not the same sound for all cars competing. Same goes for all non-spec series, enduraceseries most of all.

I DON'T AGREE WITH THESE PLANS! Look at the original thread.

[ger80]

Originally Posted by jc_nl

Fine Ginger have it your way, the Panoz LMP-1 with an 4 cyl turbo???
Or, a bit more up to date, an Aston P1 with a 4 cyl turbo??

No thanks, one brand (Mazda probably) having a go with one would be great, but that would be enough.

Diversity is what makes (endurance) racing fun. In F1 it was great to have a screaming Ferrari against a rumbling Ford-Cosworth, not the same sound for all cars competing. Same goes for all non-spec series, enduraceseries most of all.

Well, we will get something like at anyway in 2011. Ok, maybe they will use 3.4L NA engines ... But as long as the ACO is able to add other engines, like the 3.4L NA or the 3.7L diesel, why not?

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by ger80

Well, we will get something like at anyway in 2011. Ok, maybe they will use 3.4L NA engines ... But as long as the ACO is able to add other engines, like the 3.4L NA or the 3.7L diesel, why not?

Treu. Which,by the way,I think is downright depreciative for the sport.
It'll simply mean lower speeds,since the only way to let a 3,4L N/A engine achieve in the order of 600+ bhp is to rev the hell out of the thing,which in term will produce way too much(fantastically,glorious) noise for them ACO bureaucrats. My guess is,they'll immediatly start waving their little safety and environment fingers if that happens...

As ger80 so rightly points out,it'd be fine to see a few of these 2L turbo's,but let's just keep it to "just a few" o.k.?
Imho,the only reason why I like 2L 4cyl. turbo engines is because they spit flames and bang and pop loudly when producing over 300bhp.
As for the noise the engine itself produces,I have a Dyson vacumecleaner that sounds better!

[deggis]

Originally Posted by GTfour

600+ bhp

Check the ACO document. "520 bhp"

[Gingers4Justice]

So no V12s? Why did the ACO persue the production engine rule for such a short space of time?

[jc_nl]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I DON'T AGREE WITH THESE PLANS! Look at the original thread.

Sorry Ginger, I misread the tone of your last post.

To be honest, slowing the cars (a bit) down isn't realy my main concern. It's not like you can tell when they drive by if they are going 180 or 200, both seem to be rather fast.

I just like the diversity of al sorts of engines, I would love it if a rotary engine could perform, and I don't realy mind the diesels (that much). The thought of a F1 based engine does scare me though, that kind of engine has nearly killed prototype racing before.

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by deggis

Check the ACO document. "520 bhp"

WHAT ?! That does it! The ACO has officialy gone mad.

Gentlemen,I suggest we organize and find a way to overthrow these sportscar hating old fools.
I suspect that there are way to many old FIA buddies in the membership of the ACO nowadays,and since the increasing popularity of sportscarracing has been a fat needle in the eye of the FIA's F1 circus(read:Ecclestone and Mosley),they've now ordered their infiltrants to start reducing sportscarracing to a laughable "kiss the greenies" parade.

520 bhp.....That's a joke!

[GTfour]

520 bhp... in essence this means that LMP1 will effectively be ended. Forbid these serieus sportscars,grant LMP2's a bit more power and rebadge them as LMP1. Job done! And the real big hitters down the drain. Just as the environmentnazi's have ordered...

How come I get the same frustrated and angry disdain feelings for the ACO in recent years as I do with our spineless and ever more corrupt national governments?

[jc_nl]

Originally Posted by GTfour

WHAT ?! That does it! The ACO has officialy gone mad.

Gentlemen,I suggest we organize and find a way to overthrow these sportscar hating old fools.

Well, if the bear is to be believed you won't have to, they did it themselves:
"http://tinyurl.com/celpqd" (under "Revolution de l’Sarthe")

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by jc_nl

Well, if the bear is to be believed you won't have to, they did it themselves:
"http://tinyurl.com/celpqd" (under "Revolution de l’Sarthe")

Sorry mate,but that link doesn't work for me...

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by GTfour

WHAT ?! That does it! The ACO has officialy gone mad.

Gentlemen,I suggest we organize and find a way to overthrow these sportscar hating old fools.
I suspect that there are way to many old FIA buddies in the membership of the ACO nowadays,and since the increasing popularity of sportscarracing has been a fat needle in the eye of the FIA's F1 circus(read:Ecclestone and Mosley),they've now ordered their infiltrants to start reducing sportscarracing to a laughable "kiss the greenies" parade.

520 bhp.....That's a joke!

Originally Posted by jc_nl

Well, if the bear is to be believed you won't have to, they did it themselves:
Here (under "Revolution de l’Sarthe")

Or is this the last bastion of non-FIA croanies being shown the door?



L.P.

[jc_nl]

nevermind, HORNDAWG fixed the link

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by jc_nl

nevermind, HORNDAWG fixed the link

Thanks jc_nl. A very interesting,all be it sad,read.

[GTfour]

The point that this article was removed from a forum,gives me another gruelling comparison between "the sportscar hating powers that be" and our national socialistic governments....

[deggis]

Originally Posted by GTfour

WHAT ?! That does it! The ACO has officialy gone mad.

Officially went mad in September when this was released, mentioning "150 bhp reduction":

http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans..._regl09_gb.pdf

This one from November, mentioning the "520" figure:

http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/re...de_2011_gb.pdf

Gentlemen,I suggest we organize and find a way to overthrow these sportscar hating old fools.
I suspect that there are way to many old FIA buddies in the membership of the ACO nowadays,and since the increasing popularity of sportscarracing has been a fat needle in the eye of the FIA's F1 circus(read:Ecclestone and Mosley),they've now ordered their infiltrants to start reducing sportscarracing to a laughable "kiss the greenies" parade.

520 bhp.....That's a joke!

I'm afraid you have to realize it is only ACO who is pulling the strings, not Illuminati.

[TWK]

Anyone that ends the ability to field a v12 in sportscar endurance racing should be sent to the guillotine. (If we were in revolutionary France, of course.)

[JAG]

Originally Posted by GTfour

WHAT ?! That does it! The ACO has officialy gone mad.

Gentlemen,I suggest we organize and find a way to overthrow these sportscar hating old fools.
I suspect that there are way to many old FIA buddies in the membership of the ACO nowadays,and since the increasing popularity of sportscarracing has been a fat needle in the eye of the FIA's F1 circus(read:Ecclestone and Mosley),they've now ordered their infiltrants to start reducing sportscarracing to a laughable "kiss the greenies" parade.

520 bhp.....That's a joke!

Have fans not wised upto rule changes, everyone predicts the worst. Remember how the current cars were going to be ugly, slow carts like a Daytona Protoype, they actually became sleek super quick machines that even show a clean pair of heels to Group C and IMSA GTP cars.

The new P1 engine regs are simply current P2, last time I looked everyone was saying how these sounded amazing, wishing P1 was like that, rather than diesels, dull V8 turbos and relatively low reving atmos like the Judd V10.

Engine variety in protoypes will actually increase as P2 will be for GT2 and production engines, P1's variety will come from hybrid technology, not that all 3.4l V8's or 2l turbos sound the same.

As for '520bhp' that's a nominal ACO figure, just like manufactuers give out, i.e Audi saying the R15 produces 'more than 600bhp'. What it will actually mean is the ACO can forget about yearly restrictor changes for P1, just as it hasn't become an issue in the WRC any longer. The official figure is still 300bhp, in actuallity the cars now produce over 350bhp, but aren't out of control like Group A/B.

Current P1 engines produce 650bhp, but if someone finds an advantage, i.e. the diesels, power can jump to over 700bhp, so all we see are restrictor changes every year or two.

Everyone knows the ACO's target race lap time at Le Mans is 3.30, a little quicker in qualifying, that is what the new regs will be aiming for, or at least that's what the ACO expects the cars to eventually achieve before more changes are required. Those target times have been beaten by a handfull of cars over the last decade.

[GTfour]

Oh come on,there's talk of over a hundred bhp restriction and you still think the ACO is doing the right thing? Sure...
Do you have any complaints about this club of "we do what we want,wether the public likes it or not" old boys?
Or do you work with/for them?

[JAG]

Last years Le Mans pole was 3.18, that was set on soft race tyres, the 908's could have run 3.15 with qualifying tyres, that's close to the lap record without the chicanes, and had over 700bhp. The 550bhp P2 pole was 3.32, which is still quicker than many P1's and GT1's of old. On a regular track the performance difference between P1 and P2 is minimal, this is a regulation change aimed specifically at Le Mans.

Audi and Peugeot wanted Porsche and Acura in P1, while Porsche and Acura wanted to use versions of their current P2 engines. The ACO also wanted to reduce performance, so P2 engines suited all.

There's a clear choice, you either change the chassis or engines, they chose engines. The alternative is costly, yearly tinkering with the regs, potentially upsetting those manufactuers and teams who have invested so much.

[Félix]

Originally Posted by JAG

There's a clear choice, you either change the chassis or engines, they chose engines. The alternative is costly, yearly tinkering with the regs, potentially upsetting those manufactuers and teams who have invested so much.

Well usually manufacturers like to enter a series with at least their specific engine so they can brag about the similarity between their racer and the road car. There's no way they can brag about similarities between their LMP's look compared to their road models.

So what do they do when they have to run the same basic V8 (or inline four if that makes you happy) as everybody on the grid? They slap more stickers and tell you how similar their racing KERS is to what they intend on putting in their one cars, one day... Wait, am I talking about F1 or sportcars here?