Audi announces they will contest Petit

[DanShenise]

Acura is going to get dusted. The only work they've done is on reliability, so sure the car will last the whole 10 hours, it'll just finish a couple laps down. Road Atlanta is no where near tight enough for the better handling Acuras to be able to fight off the Audi's and Pugs on the rear straight. Even the Esses are fairly smooth and regular, not a real problem for either Audi or Pug. The Acura was designed for craptastic street circuits like St.Pete and Belle Isle, not Road Atlanta. The only way Acura gets a podium is via driver error or a mechanical from the Euro's.

It amazes me they built a good P2 car, yet their P1 machine was such a cluster F*. Its like someone at HPD, was doing mushrooms or something.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by isynge

I'm all in favour of debate and a divergence of opinions but I honestly can't see how Audi coming along can be anything other than good news.

I'm not 100% convinced that we out and out know that the 908 is faster than the R15, especially once you factor in the track, traffic, and tactical nous that 10 hours around Road Atlanta involves, so either way we've got a battle at the front. Acura should be able to keep the Europeans honest, and Oreca will be a fascinating benchmark about where European petrol LMP1s are in respect to the ALMS.

Let's remember this isn't a case of cars being taken away - if you want to look at respective performance between, for example, Oreca and Acura, there's absolutely nothing stopping you. For my money this entry starts to approach the high water mark we saw 12 months ago.

I would agree that this is nothing but good!!





L.P.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by DanShenise

Acura is going to get dusted. The only work they've done is on reliability, so sure the car will last the whole 10 hours, it'll just finish a couple laps down. Road Atlanta is no where near tight enough for the better handling Acuras to be able to fight off the Audi's and Pugs on the rear straight. Even the Esses are fairly smooth and regular, not a real problem for either Audi or Pug. The Acura was designed for craptastic street circuits like St.Pete and Belle Isle, not Road Atlanta. The only way Acura gets a podium is via driver error or a mechanical from the Euro's.

It amazes me they built a good P2 car, yet their P1 machine was such a cluster F*. Its like someone at HPD, was doing mushrooms or something.

Yes I do see mushrooms in the picture. Just not about who it was being written.

As to the rest, we will get to see, , at/from Petit!



L.P.

[CarolK]

Originally Posted by isynge

I'm all in favour of debate and a divergence of opinions but I honestly can't see how Audi coming along can be anything other than good news.

I'm not 100% convinced that we out and out know that the 908 is faster than the R15, especially once you factor in the track, traffic, and tactical nous that 10 hours around Road Atlanta involves, so either way we've got a battle at the front. Acura should be able to keep the Europeans honest, and Oreca will be a fascinating benchmark about where European petrol LMP1s are in respect to the ALMS.

Let's remember this isn't a case of cars being taken away - if you want to look at respective performance between, for example, Oreca and Acura, there's absolutely nothing stopping you. For my money this entry starts to approach the high water mark we saw 12 months ago.

You're absolutely correct with the factors stated in your post. Traffic will definitely be an issue, but nevermind, I just remembered the slow GT3 Porsches in the Challenge Class won't be there, only have to worry about a couple backmarker GT2's. It will be interesting seeing Pagneaud driving against his Peugeot guys; having seen Oreca and Acura run, I'll go with the Orecas; Acuras have deFerran and Brabs as their weapons. I suspect a diesel podium.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by CarolK

You're absolutely correct with the factors stated in your post. Traffic will definitely be an issue, but nevermind, I just remembered the slow GT3 Porsches in the Challenge Class won't be there, only have to worry about a couple backmarker GT2's. It will be interesting seeing Pagneaud driving against his Peugeot guys; having seen Oreca and Acura run, I'll go with the Orecas; Acuras have deFerran and Brabs as their weapons. I suspect a diesel podium.

Pagenaud is also on that list of weapons of acura

[ger80]

Friends have to change their wedding date ...

[AndrewF31]

Really good news. I've been listening to the 2008 PLM race and it was a fantastic race between those 2 makes.
Porsche and Acura had trouble keeping up but they were there or there abouts with the ALMS rules from last year. If things are not like that this year, I doubt the Acuras will be there but you can expect Le Mans part 2 for 2009 there, even if it's Diesels vs. Diesels and Gasoline vs. Gasoline.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by DanShenise

Acura is going to get dusted. The only work they've done is on reliability, so sure the car will last the whole 10 hours, it'll just finish a couple laps down. Road Atlanta is no where near tight enough for the better handling Acuras to be able to fight off the Audi's and Pugs on the rear straight. Even the Esses are fairly smooth and regular, not a real problem for either Audi or Pug. The Acura was designed for craptastic street circuits like St.Pete and Belle Isle, not Road Atlanta. The only way Acura gets a podium is via driver error or a mechanical from the Euro's.

It amazes me they built a good P2 car, yet their P1 machine was such a cluster F*. Its like someone at HPD, was doing mushrooms or something.

lol... I don't know that it's a cluster! I think the chassis is probably very good though the engine seems anemic.

[dxk1]

I'm thrilled that both Audi and Peugeot will bring entries to PLM, but I'm also thrilled that Oreca is showing up and maybe some others. I believe the Acuras will hold their own. The more entries their are the more traffic becomes an issue. I believe the Audis as well as the Acuras & other petrol entries will be more nimble in the traffic than the Peugeots so that may even things up a little. Remember, the Acuras stayed on the same lap as the Audis and Pugs at Sebring until mechanical gremlins dropped them back. It will be very interesting to see the Acuras against the Oreca entry.

DK

[TWK]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

lol... I don't know that it's a cluster! I think the chassis is probably very good though the engine seems anemic.

I suspect the engine "seems anemic" because of the high downforce and mechanical grip (OS front tires) design. Even the ARX-01b is a high downforce design that "hits the wall" (metaphorically speaking) on long straights.

[Jonerz]

The addition of two more silent, clean, fast diesels is very positive. Not to mention there is a lot of talk about "showing commitment to sports cars and the ALMS" as well as "TDI diesel in America", so hopefully this blossoms into something bigger for 2010.

I will be very interested to see how Audi responds to Peugeot winning at Le Mans this year. Audi embarrassed themselves there in my opinion. Overheating and crashes are things they were supposed to be better than. In my heart-of-hearts I see Audi trouncing Peugeot. The more nimble Audi will be piloted by drivers itching for a race victory.

As far as how the gasoline cars fair, I think they will be right on the tails of their diesel counterparts for the most part, probably not close enough to win the race. However Acura vs. Oreca are, essentially, unknown quantities, as they have no head-to-head record. One has to assume that Acura will not want to be whipped by Peugeot and Audi, let alone Oreca and will up their game *cough* engine development *cough*. Engine development on the program has been stopped, clearly tire and chassis development have moved forward, as their reliability has improved significantly since Sebring. The small, "anemic" V8 will be the weakest in the LMP1 class but de Ferran Motorsports and Patron Highcroft Racing are some of the best in the business. This may be a stretch (no Oreca AIM, let alone diesel power), but aside from Corsa they have had the least power on tap all year in LMP1 and that hasn't stopped the race wins. Will they be ready for the angry, tried and tested Oreca 01 AIMs? It sure as heck will be fun to watch. Hopefully I will be in attendance at the track. But the fact that SPEED will be showing the entire race (what a stroke of luck!) with only commercial breaks interrupting the scorching action from what may turn out to be the best sporting event of the year, I certainly can't complain! I'm ready to watch some racing!

Chris

[DanShenise]

I just thinking designing a car for the tightest possible, most high downforce circuits at the expense of the "showcase" races was a risky decision. Especially when you consider that they had to know that even if Audi didn't do a full season, they and Peugeot would mainly contest the the big two, Sebring and Petit. Both of which have long straights and sweepers that favor their power curve. Traffic will be an issue, but not enough to help keep them from finishing a lap or two down.

As far as Audi, Peugeot and anyone else with a decent car coming, the more the merrier. I love the whistling diesels as much as I love the rumble of the Vettes and those Ford GT40s. Too bad no one could get them competitive though, good looking car even if Clarkson owns one.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I'm incredibly dissapointed with this, all chances of an upset from Oreca or Acura, or even a petrol on the podium, have been thrown out of the window now.

hmmmm.....ok.
it's still a 1,000 mile race on a tight and very fast track...as we've seen in year's past, anything can happen....there was a turn 1/lap 1 incident that i will never forget and hate to bring up now, but.....i mean come on, man...

Originally Posted by Jonerz

I will be very interested to see how Audi responds to Peugeot winning at Le Mans this year. Audi embarrassed themselves there in my opinion. Overheating and crashes are things they were supposed to be better than. In my heart-of-hearts I see Audi trouncing Peugeot. The more nimble Audi will be piloted by drivers itching for a race victory.

agreed and can't wait to see McNish wheel it most of all on that note!

[broadrun96]

Mosport may give Acura a chance to risk it with one car and see how much they can pull a Field by taking some wing off and see how fast it can go. Maybe their only hope since it seems like it will have enough mechanical grip that with better top end they might be able to harass an Audi or Pug into trying something desperate to get by.

[Mal]

When Acura built the P1 they stated their long term ambition was to go to Le Mans. Therefore they must have had a low downforce aero package in mind. Maybe we will see some revised aero on the car. Whether it was ever built and tested is another matter.

It all depends on how much Acura want to take on Audi and Pug or whether they are happy for both cars to fight for their own championship

[The Badger]

I heard that they biult a low aero body kit when they designed the beast ?

But I guess it your having trouble getting heat into yours fronts , you will not be needing low downforce .

[MJ_N_09]

I think what G4J has said in this thread is a good case of "WTF". Ironic, as this is the only time I've ever disagreed with him.


Now we have an actual battle, as Peugeot will not just run around, making laps. Infact, I doubt that the Acura will hold together after seeing Sebring back in March, while Oreca will have almost nothing for the Pugs as well.

Good to Audi for stepping up.

[CarolK]

Originally Posted by MJ_N_09

I think what G4J has said in this thread is a good case of "WTF". Ironic, as this is the only time I've ever disagreed with him.

Now we have an actual battle, as Peugeot will not just run around, making laps. Infact, I doubt that the Acura will hold together after seeing Sebring back in March, while Oreca will have almost nothing for the Pugs as well.

Good to Audi for stepping up.

We saw the Pugeots run at Spa in May, they were supposedly "not racing" but testing the forthcoming changes to the diesels prior to LM. For not racing, they took first with a lap time of 2.02.669 and the #11 Oreca with Panis/LaPierre came in fouth behind Pescarolo Sport and Aston with a lap time of 2.04.387 (unfortunately the #12 Oreca with Ortelli/Senna came back to the pits on a flatbed). So to say Oreca will have almost nothing for the Pugs as well is a misnomer. It's a shame that Pescarolo Sport isn't coming to Petit, they need an uplifting after the problems last weekend at the NRing.

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by CarolK

We saw the Pugeots run at Spa in May, they were supposedly "not racing" but testing the forthcoming changes to the diesels prior to LM. For not racing, they took first with a lap time of 2.02.669 and the #11 Oreca with Panis/LaPierre came in fouth behind Pescarolo Sport and Aston with a lap time of 2.04.387 (unfortunately the #12 Oreca with Ortelli/Senna came back to the pits on a flatbed). So to say Oreca will have almost nothing for the Pugs as well is a misnomer. It's a shame that Pescarolo Sport isn't coming to Petit, they need an uplifting after the problems last weekend at the NRing.

Well, make Sony France pay out more money, or have Henri sign on the main Japanese or American branches, and problem solved.

Or make Peugeot give him a couple of cars for the LMS/LM next year with at least as much factory support as Audi is giving the realitvely worthless Kolles effort.

[Jonerz]

I don't think Acura's stated goal was to run at Le Mans with the ARX-02a. In fact, I think at Sebring they talked about how the car was designed specifically for ALMS competition. Patron-Highcroft Racing stated, and maintain, that their team goal is to compete at, and win the 24h of Le Mans.

Chris

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

I don't think Acura's stated goal was to run at Le Mans with the ARX-02a. In fact, I think at Sebring they talked about how the car was designed specifically for ALMS competition. Patron-Highcroft Racing stated, and maintain, that their team goal is to compete at, and win the 24h of Le Mans.

Chris

The Acura won't be raced at Le Mans, not this one, as it will completely emberass the Acura brand. I dread to think how much time it will lose over 24 hours just warming the tires up, let alone how much time it will lose on the Mulsanne straight.

[the real Stig]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

The Acura won't be raced at Le Mans, not this one, as it will completely emberass the Acura brand. I dread to think how much time it will lose over 24 hours just warming the tires up, let alone how much time it will lose on the Mulsanne straight.

Although you may be entirly correct about the 24, I can't imagine Acura having a tire warming issue, do you have data (or theory) to back this up?
I would imagine the tires are a large drag problem for big straightaways, but the car with it's weight distribution and high levels of downforce should generate heat as quickly as the cars with less tire and lower down force. IMO

Considering Acura was only 2 seconds off the pace at Sebring with the car "as new" handling really badly (rember Brabs spinning it twice), and now the car should have been developed at least for saftey sake. The situation should be quite a bit closer with Audi and Pug. IMO

[Purist]

Sebring doesn't have a back straight of the magnitude we have at Road Atlanta. Also, the sort of corners that aid the Acuras are much more distributed at Sebring, which helped the Acuras hold position there more effectively than is likely to be the case at Road Atlanta. The Acura ran its low 1:45 in qualifying. The Peugeot ran its low 1:43 in the race. There is a definite difference.

The tire heating issue has been brought up by the teams themselves, and been mentioned by the commentators at every, or virtually every, ALMS race this season. And it does make some sense, since the front tires are larger both in diameter and width. They cannot be slid as easily, and there is substantially more surface area on which to distribute any heat energy that is generated.

There is one particular scenario that could play into Acura's hands though: a wet race. Their greater mechanical grip would be invaluable if such a situation arises.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Purist

Sebring doesn't have a back straight of the magnitude we have at Road Atlanta. Also, the sort of corners that aid the Acuras are much more distributed at Sebring, which helped the Acuras hold position there more effectively than is likely to be the case at Road Atlanta. The Acura ran its low 1:45 in qualifying. The Peugeot ran its low 1:43 in the race. There is a definite difference.

The tire heating issue has been brought up by the teams themselves, and been mentioned by the commentators at every, or virtually every, ALMS race this season. And it does make some sense, since the front tires are larger both in diameter and width. They cannot be slid as easily, and there is substantially more surface area on which to distribute any heat energy that is generated.

There is one particular scenario that could play into Acura's hands though: a wet race. Their greater mechanical grip would be invaluable if such a situation arises.

Out of curiosity, what is the length of Ulman Sraight at Sebring versus Road Atlanta's straight? Certainly the entry to Ulman is faster then the entry to RA back straight from turn 7.

No doubt RA is faster then Sebring, race fast laps are nearly 8 mph different. I would think that at Road Atlanta, from turn one to five is prime Acura territory with the direction changes. They could not pass through there but seems like they could cover it slighty faster then the diesels, but yes, when they exit turn 7 the Acura lack of torque will seemingly leave them watching tail lights.

Anyway, I am utterly thrilled that Peugeot and Audi will be there as we have wanted to see a return match up with Acura, and I hope like heck we can see sector time studies, hint, hint to Sam Collins and Racecar Engineering folks.


robert

[fieldodreams79]

aren't the speeds at the end of each straight are similar as is the length?

regardless, rain or shine, Acura don't stand a chance unless there is some big mishaps on the part of the Diesels.