Flavio Wins Appeal

[stark]

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80727

Does anyone know what month / issue this interview is in? I can't seem to find out when its published.

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Why can't he be like Pat Symmonds and take his punishment like a man?

Symonds' ban has also been overturned.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by neilwaynesmith

Money talks, and sets a dangerous precedent....

What this court is effectively saying is; "It doesn't matter that you enter into a sport, thereby agreeing to be governed by it's rules. Because if you break those rules, you can always throw money at the courts to change the rules from the outside.

In other words, given enough cash, cheats CAN prosper.

No it tells governing bodies that they are not above the law, that they cannot run kangaroo courts and that they are not beyond sanction themselves.

It's the right decision. Whether Flav, Pat or any of the others were guilty or not was a question that should have been ascertained at proper hearings with all those involved able to give evidence - not with one party being given immunity.

This penalty was always outside of the remit of the FIA and I doubt that they weren't aware of that.

Kangaroo courts as we've seen in F1 have no place within a modern justice system.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I'd be interested to know who Flavio is now inviting to his "big party" ?

Probably just Piquet jr.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Symonds' ban has also been overturned.

Well, at least he hasn't made so much fuss about it. Perhaps he'll now go and team up with Mike Coughlan over at Stefan GP?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Probably just Piquet jr.

Nah! Schumacher will be there too, probably along with Tiger Woods, Ben Johnson, Andre Agassi and the entire Chinese olympic team. Oh, and some cyclists, can't forget the cyclists!

[Last2LiftOff]

Go Ben!

[Icebaby]

Flavio was no more guilty than Hamilton who lied in Australia 2009 to gain an unfair advantage, both deserve the same punishment bringing the sport into disripute.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

Flavio was no more guilty than Hamilton who lied in Australia 2009 to gain an unfair advantage, both deserve the same punishment bringing the sport into disripute.

There must be degrees of lying and cheating? Hamilton, I would give 3 out of 10, Briatore, 8 out of 10 pending other offences being taken into consideration.

[Farbrooke]

Reading the Autosport account of the verdict seemingly F1 is after all no different to any other motorsport event - at what ever level - only the Driver and entrant (Renault in this case) are laible

Flavio and Symonds were just employees of Renault whose duty it was to repremand in which ever way they saw fit.

[duke_toaster]

If it's about contracting players and entrants, how come the Fédération Française de Football et al can ban managers? This consequences of this decision could be ridiculous - there is a Superlicence type thing needed to manage a top tier football team, there should be a Superlicence to hold a similar role for a top team racing team. The same should apply with agents.

[BluSTi]

MY FAULT!!! WRONG GUY!

I meant Mike Coughlan as the douchebag.

My mistake entirely.

[av8rirl]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

Flavio was no more guilty than Hamilton who lied in Australia 2009 to gain an unfair advantage, both deserve the same punishment bringing the sport into disripute.

I was thinking exactly the same thing earlier.

And Marbot... I don't mean this as a personal attack... but you are talking pure and utter horse sh*te... How is Hamilton a 3 out of 10 while Flav is 8 out of 10??

If I remember correctly Hamilton told complete and utter lies and when he was found out, he told a story that took down both Ron Dennis and Dave Ryan... remember Dennis is the man that got Hamilton to where he is today!

Flav appears to have gone about this in a really sly way... not opening his mouth on the subject and letting the FIA fcuk up the proceedings... I bet he was laughing away all the time knowing that he just had to sit back and let Max go crazy on punishment cos he knew he'd be able to appeal because of Max's total disdain for him.

So is Flav worse than Hamilton?? He is certainly sly and wiley and let them trip themselves up as they jumped around trying to ban him from everything... but Hamilton cannot be called a man because of his blatant lies to start out with and then hanging everyone around him so that he could go scot free!

Possibly the only w@nker bigger than both of them is Max Mosley!

Regarding Pat Symonds... its a pity he was involved in all this... he seems like a decent bloke and when approached about it he took it on the chin and confessed everything knowing that he was kicking himself and his career down the tubes!

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by BluSTi

MY FAULT!!! WRONG GUY!

I meant Mike Coughlan as the douchebag.

My mistake entirely.

I'm not going to derail this thread on my views about the whole leaked Ferrari designs business, but he's now at Stefan GP.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by av8rirl

And Marbot... I don't mean this as a personal attack... but you are talking pure and utter horse sh*te... How is Hamilton a 3 out of 10 while Flav is 8 out of 10??

Well, that was just a bit of fun.

The perception, however, was that Hamilton was portrayed as a naughty schoolboy and Briatore as the Prince of Darkness who was willing to let his 'side-kicks' take the fall for him.

In all cases each tried to deceive for gain (and they haven't been the only ones), and that's just plain wrong in my book.

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

Flavio was no more guilty than Hamilton who lied in Australia 2009 to gain an unfair advantage, both deserve the same punishment bringing the sport into disripute.

How about Trulli's lie in saying Hamilton passed him apropos of nothing under the safety car? Yet he was not punished at all. But of course that whole thing was set up by the FIA to screw Dennis.

The suggestion is that the FIA did not follow appropriate procedure. This is very interesting, it suggests that the FIA should have to reform its disciplinary procedures, maybe getting someone independent involved. Like Tony Scott-Andrews, sacked for penalising TGF.

[Marbot]

FIA to appeal, but in the meantime they must notify the public of the ban lifting.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80744

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

Flavio was no more guilty than Hamilton who lied in Australia 2009 to gain an unfair advantage, both deserve the same punishment bringing the sport into disripute.

My god, you just never stop!

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Marbot

FIA to appeal, but in the meantime they must notify the public of the ban lifting.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80744

NO - the FIA MAY appeal. Article clearly states that the FIA are considering an appeal.

I think that this verdict (so far) is a fair outcome. What should have happened is that the FIA punished its licence holder (Renault) who then had a decision to make regarding the team staff involved.

Seemed to me at the time that Maxie had a bit of a vendetta running against Flav, but also that the FIA didn't want to punish Renault for fear of driving them out of the sport. Given that, the decision to punish Flav & Pat was more a political outcome, or one of convenience, rather than the correct outcome - punish Renault.

Coughlan & Stepney possibly could have gone this route themselves earlier and the flaws in the FIA way of doing things could have been exposed long before this happened.

I don't care whether Flav's there or not - he's a waste of space to me but I think that its good that Pat can get involved again (if he wants to). Pat made a severe error of judgement which he appears to truly regret but has a lot to offer any team - would be good to see him back involved.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Marbot

FIA to appeal, but in the meantime they must notify the public of the ban lifting.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80744

"Public warning, these men are now among us".

[av8rirl]

Originally Posted by Tourer

I don't care whether Flav's there or not - he's a waste of space to me but I think that its good that Pat can get involved again (if he wants to). Pat made a severe error of judgement which he appears to truly regret but has a lot to offer any team - would be good to see him back involved.

+1

[foreversideways]

That result is pretty much as expected, the FIA were operating in a very amateur way when they handed the ban out without considering their legal position. With Moseley gone there will probably be little objection to Flav popping up somewhere again soon, after all Ron Dennis has been showing his head above the parapet recently and been quite critical of the FIA in a recent article for.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Tourer

NO - the FIA MAY appeal. Article clearly states that the FIA are considering an appeal.

I think that they will definitely be appealing, for however long that may take.

"The Court’s decision is not enforceable until the FIA's appeal options have been exhausted. Until then, the World Motor Sport Council’s decision continues to apply."

Which should give them enough time to do this:

"In addition, the FIA intends to consider appropriate actions to ensure that no persons who would engage, or who have engaged, in such dangerous activities or acts of intentional cheating will be allowed to participate in Formula One in the future."

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...tribunal1.aspx

[GTRMagic]

Now Mr Briatore can get back to his rightful place of looking after Potsie's driving contract for 2011 and beyond!

No Renault chance there now methinks

[Dutton]

I guess I am fortunate in that I am not bothered either way with this stuff.

F1, like all motorsport, is absolutely imbued with cheating. As the generations and decades pass, well, we view past cheating in a very romantic way. It is no different to the modern day cheating. If anyone thinks the Mclaren-Ferrari '07 affair, or this Singapore thing, or whatever else, is in anyway unusual.....................get your senses checked. Sport/business and cheating are just different threads of the same thing.

It doesn't make cheating, sabotage, or espionage "right". If it is found in a particular season, then it should involve penalties that take place in that season. If bad stuff happens that is picked up late (i.e. Singapore), or else not picked up, then there you go. All major participants in large-scale competition cheat (the definitions of cheating just get argued about). Heck, plenty in lower levels do too.

The language of tolerances and errors get brought in. The bottom line is all the players in the big leagues of anything are all untrustworthy, scheming, dubious puppies.

If you actually think otherwise, then you are just living in a dreamworld. You just might think governments are the ultimate controlling force in society, too.