Teflonso's start - Was it dangerous?

[beau1]

Originally Posted by Steven Humphrey

And this is what happens when it goes wrong-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0NA...layer_embedded

I hope no-one was hurt but....
Thats one of the worst, most inept driving I've ever seen.

All I can say is that if an F1 driver doesn't know how to keep their car under control whilst doing such an action then they shouldn't be in F1.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by beau1

It was happening during the 1980s as well. Schumacher didn't invent it.

Senna invented it. Schumi perfected it. Now quite a lot of other people use it as well. Why shouldn't they? It can earn them an advantage and no-one has ever been penalised. However it is dangerous and unfair.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by beau1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUAPE...eature=related

Watch Berger as he defends against the Mclaren and second Williams.

That's lame, nothing like The Schumacher Chop. Schumi would be on pole and come across and chop you as soon as the light went green, just like Alonso did at the start of the Italian GP a couple of weeks ago.

[Wims]

Berger would have tried to do that if it wasnt for the massive amount of wheelspin that kept him stationary in his startbox until the p2 guy had passed him. This was pretty much exactly the "schumichop". Or the Berger chop or whatever. I'm sure people had done it way before Berger as well

[Bononi]

Uhn... dangerous yeah, but not illegal, that was only racing and racing is good.

[TWRv12]

There's also the Mansell way, start on pole, drive off line, block your team, end up 3rd into turn one!
@ 4m40s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5ntlBJERME

[beau1]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

That's lame, nothing like The Schumacher Chop. Schumi would be on pole and come across and chop you as soon as the light went green, just like Alonso did at the start of the Italian GP a couple of weeks ago.

What Berger did was effectively the same thing. Its all about having a bad start and losing the advantage gained from starting 1st. The first Williams was well gone so he wouldn't have done it against them.
Its exactly the same as the 'Schumacher chop', theres no two ways about it.

I guess calling it the 'Berger Chop' would have been some what confusing for meat-eaters.

[beau1]

Originally Posted by Wims

Berger would have tried to do that if it wasnt for the massive amount of wheelspin that kept him stationary in his startbox until the p2 guy had passed him. This was pretty much exactly the "schumichop". Or the Berger chop or whatever. I'm sure people had done it way before Berger as well

Ah, you said it better.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by beau1

What Berger did was effectively the same thing. Its all about having a bad start and losing the advantage gained from starting 1st. The first Williams was well gone so he wouldn't have done it against them.
Its exactly the same as the 'Schumacher chop', theres no two ways about it.

I guess calling it the 'Berger Chop' would have been some what confusing for meat-eaters.

Maybe not the best example as the TV director misses the chop and I wasn't prepared to trawl YouTube but you can see Schumi immediately move over as soon as the light goes green.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvTt7...eature=related

If there are any vegans who watch F1 they'd find the Berger Chop abhorrent.

[Splatz the Cow]

I thought Alonso made two moves and so it was dubious because of that. However, he was ahead of Vettel so I didn't think it was too dangerous as such.

If Vettel was alongside a bit then it would have been more dangerous for sure.

I don't think this is being talked about just coz its a Ferrari, or coz its Alonso, as Webber has done some shockers (when he hasn't bogged down at the start that is,) and those have been spoken about. Vettel also has done some, and they've drawn comments as well.

On a street circuit it looks a lot more dangerous, I think.

[E.B]

I dislike the practice very much, but like others have got used to it and its regularity.

I would love to see it changed ans am against this sort of behaviour.

[Born Racer]

Webber got a penalty for this last year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJgxqDm6WpA&NR=1

Why aren't Teflonso and Vettel and anyone else who tries this stuff getting penalties?

Yet again, inconsistent rulings by the stewards.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by E.B

I would love to see it changed ans am against this sort of behaviour.

Me too. You shouldn't close off another driver like that. Change your line more progressively. If you're going to squeeze, don't chop like that. It's preventing legitimate overtaking.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Webber got a penalty for this last year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJgxqDm6WpA&NR=1

Why aren't Teflonso and Vettel and anyone else who tries this stuff getting penalties?

Yet again, inconsistent rulings by the stewards.

I think Webber is the only person to actually hit another driver whilst doing it, hence the penalty. The other drivers who do it are killing any attempt to race them, but none of them have had an accident whilst doing it. When they do, they'll get penalised.

[Caramba]

Originally Posted by gachjoel

Strange,
vettel has been doing it all season when he is on pole.
strange how come a thread started when Alonso done it

And he's been given stick on this website by numerous people for doing it - quite rightly in my opinion.

Senna was doing this before Schumi & it's getting worse in the junior formula, just check out some of the GP3 races this season. That WSBR example is awful as well.

I'd like to see the swerve across the width of the circuit to block a car outlawed but I guess it's now too widespread - it needed to be dealt with years ago.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by beau1

Only dangerous in a 'Motorsport is dangerous' way. They are nowhere near as bad the chops or weaves that plagued the mid-late 90s.

Do we not want a race? Maybe we should introduce a rule which states the drivers arn't allowed to defend if there is a car 5 metres from them.
Or even better, ban defending altogether.

Yeh these are my feelings. I think it's just one of those moves that's accepted these days. The drivers all do, as do the teams (afterall, there were/are no complaints), so let's crack on with the racing

Selby

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

I think Webber is the only person to actually hit another driver whilst doing it, hence the penalty. The other drivers who do it are killing any attempt to race them, but none of them have had an accident whilst doing it. When they do, they'll get penalised.

Probably true, but isn't that an odd line of reasoning for stewards to use? Some people argued Schumacher's swerve towards Barrichello in Hungary was okay because they didn't collide and that argument got shot down by a lot of people. Should it have to end in an accident to get punishment.

Webber's chop in that clip was less severe than a lot of the recent ones, but he messed it up by doing it way too late.

By the way if you think the World Series clip earlier in the thread was ridiculous, what about..? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbhbpSJUzuM

[Spritle]

It only gets people upset when the perpetrator wins the race or their driver is the victim.

Otherwise, nobody complains much. Unless of course the "chopper" is Alonso, Vettel, Webber, Hamilton or Schumacher.

It must be tough being a hated driver in F1...

...people are ALWAYS starting threads about you!

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Probably true, but isn't that an odd line of reasoning for stewards to use? Some people argued Schumacher's swerve towards Barrichello in Hungary was okay because they didn't collide and that argument got shot down by a lot of people. Should it have to end in an accident to get punishment.

No, but this is the FIA we're talking about. Shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted is standard practice. I personally think it's an abhorrent practice and would penalise any driver who does it, but I don't make the rules - it takes contact between two cars for a penalty to be handed out (see the Webber/Barrichello incident), and it will take a proper accident before it is banned outright.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by Spritle

Otherwise, nobody complains much. Unless of course the "chopper" is Alonso, Vettel, Webber, Hamilton or Schumacher.

In the case of Alonso, it's sometimes because nothing sticks.

[beau1]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Maybe not the best example as the TV director misses the chop and I wasn't prepared to trawl YouTube but you can see Schumi immediately move over as soon as the light goes green.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvTt7...eature=related

If there are any vegans who watch F1 they'd find the Berger Chop abhorrent.

I still think the Berger example is just as 'bad' or just as much of a 'chop'.
Does it matter whether its right as the lights go green or when someone has picked up enough traction to do the move?
I don't think so. In Bergers case I'd argue that it is in fact more dangerous because its more random.

[garcon]

Maneouvres always look more dangerous in red cars than silver cars. Fact.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by garcon

Maneouvres always look more dangerous in red cars than silver cars. Fact.

After all red is the color for danger, even in nature.

[Peter Mallett]

In answer to the thread title. NOPE.

[Marbot]

Vettel gets taste of own medicine, shock, horror!

He's hardly going to complain about it is he.