[Official] Rate the Race : Indian GP

[nicanary]

Huge running costs = more required income = more GPs in developing countries = more fan alienation. And CVC expect a return on their investment.

Can't someone just buy it back?

The whole situation is like the Ohmagooly Bird running round in ever-decreasing circles till it disappears up its own a**e. Who will rid us of this turbulent priest/pest?

[awrb]

I didn't think it was too bad, a tolerable race. However I then thought back to 2004 so I gave this race a 10.

I still think the cars are just too reliable these days, you used to watch to the end because there was that chance that the leader wouldn't make the end, or that this would be the one race in the year that Schumacher's Ferrari let him down and someone else would actually win. But no, they'll all make it to the end. I suppose that's progress though isn't it, my car certainly lets me down less than a 90's car would.

And that's why Pedro de la Rosa is my driver of the day, for reminding me of the good old days. Oh, wrong thread...

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by nicanary

We're back to the age-old question - is it sport or entertainment? You say it's not fun to watch, but is that the point? If it's about technical excellence, then Red Bull and Adrian Newey have got it right. If it's about entertaining the masses, then yes. it was boring.

I'm a nostalgist, and personally don't like modern F1 and how it's organised, but I still watch it because I love the sport. Admittedly I record it and fast-forward rather a lot, but I stick it out to the bitter end.

IMO it's not supposed to be an entertainment, whatever Bernie hopes for. Since 1950 there have been umpteen years when the has been little or no racing for first place, when one driver has "run off and hid". That's invariably been because one team/designer/engineer has got it more right than the others - he should be congratulated, not castigated.

It's a pity that it's come down to this, when enthusiasts like us bemoan a situation that a few years ago would have been perfectly acceptable. Instant gratification seems to be part of the modern world.

To me, the answer is to CUT the number of races, not increase it like some would call for. Fewer races means more anticipation, and less disappointment. I always look forward to the first race - by this point of the season I'm suffering from overload, and therefore more susceptible to a spot of moaning. It just seems to go on and on.......

[wnut]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

It's hard, I agree with you.

We got spoiled so now all this 'racing' seems pretty lame, to me. And i'd consider myself quite a hardcore fan.

Selby

The first half of this season 2012 was the best racing I have ever seen in F1, and I go back a really embarrasssing amount of time!

I view DRS as anti-wake turbulence, and forcing the teams to maximise tyre use resulted in very good racing!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by strider

I agree. The first lap was great, but after that I may as well have done something else and just checked in for the last few laps.

That's exactly what I did. Peering through the smog was quite entertaining, as I tried to see how full or empty the grandstands were.

The last two races have been very dull, on these sterile Tilkedromes, just hope Austin doesn't turn out to be another boring race. One.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by nicanary

We're back to the age-old question - is it sport or entertainment? You say it's not fun to watch, but is that the point? If it's about technical excellence, then Red Bull and Adrian Newey have got it right. If it's about entertaining the masses, then yes. it was boring.

I'm a nostalgist, and personally don't like modern F1 and how it's organised, but I still watch it because I love the sport. Admittedly I record it and fast-forward rather a lot, but I stick it out to the bitter end.

IMO it's not supposed to be an entertainment, whatever Bernie hopes for. Since 1950 there have been umpteen years when the has been little or no racing for first place, when one driver has "run off and hid". That's invariably been because one team/designer/engineer has got it more right than the others - he should be congratulated, not castigated.

It's a pity that it's come down to this, when enthusiasts like us bemoan a situation that a few years ago would have been perfectly acceptable. Instant gratification seems to be part of the modern world.

To me, the answer is to CUT the number of races, not increase it like some would call for. Fewer races means more anticipation, and less disappointment. I always look forward to the first race - by this point of the season I'm suffering from overload, and therefore more susceptible to a spot of moaning. It just seems to go on and on.......

The sport is four times too popular from what is healthy. I'd love it for the audience for F1 to be 25% of what it is now. This pandering to the mass audience brings in the megabucks now but it's not an enterprise that will end well for anyone.

It all follows on from the sport being an investment vehicle being mined by speculators. All those guys want to do is maximise the profits and flee. Turning the sport into a circus does that.

I don't think it's an entertainment versus sport thing at all as I think good sport is entertaining albeit entertainment that demands involvement and an attention span to gain true satisfaction from the experience.

I think a far better dichotomy it's a 'sport' versus 'circus' equation and the needle is definitely leaning towards the circus. It's one of the reasons I abandoned following the BTCC for example.

[Marbot]

5. But sometimes you need the bad or merely average in order to see what's good.

[nicanary]

To Paradise City - fair enough, circus it is. I didn't want to upset too many people by calling it that, but that is exactly what Bernie's created.

The only thing that differentiates most of the "new" circuits from one another is a token gesture at local architecture - the tents at Bahrain, the pagodas in China etc.. Apart from that, you could be anywhere in the world (apart from the smog!). Bernie had homogenised the whole thing - the TV format, the banal interviews, the podium celebrations. Thank God for places like Monaco - I know some folks don't like it because it's usually a procession, but at least it looks like a town and not a caricature.

Why on earth are people calling for more races in other threads? We're only going to get more of this type of race. All the character had been wiped out of most of the traditional GPs by Bernie's insistence on being in charge, just in case someone spoiled his "ideal" of "only the very best cars/drivers", nothing allowed to interlope, nobody allowed to have an alternative view. It's almost fascism.

You're spot on with the BTCC - the motor sport equivalent of Saturday-night TV. If only the teams in F1 would remember how they used to manage on lesser incomes, and agree to cut back on their wayward spending, then the sums of dosh required to take part could be reduced, and the organisers of decent GPs might be able to re-enter the fray.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by strider

I agree. The first lap was great, but after that I may as well have done something else and just checked in for the last few laps.

Ditto, I watched the start and then worked in the garden. It would be nice if we could see the cars..

Filthy place, Boring race....I gave it a 5 and that is being generous..

[chillibowl]

while there were a few moments it was not a very exciting race but still im happy with what i got. never had 'high hopes' that it would be cracking and will look back on this race fondly because its only a matter of years where Bernie finds a way to turn the sprinklers on.

an average race so it starts with a five plus a point for Alonso keeping things interesting. 6

[pauln]

2. Would have given it a 1 but for the first (half a) lap.

I don't mind races where people end in the positions they start in so long as there are some good battles along the way - decent chances to attack and clean, but robust defending. This had none of that.

[sparkione]

Originally Posted by stripedcat

...the DRS passes were perhaps too easy.

They're a joke. JB got a flier of a start but ultimately could do nothing about Lulu and Ferdy when they hit the DRS zone. Where are we at when it's actually better [I]not[I]to make a great start, hang back and let legally adjustable drag do it all for you.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I think a far better dichotomy it's a 'sport' versus 'circus' equation and the needle is definitely leaning towards the circus. It's one of the reasons I abandoned following the BTCC for example.

I remember going to the circus and it was fun, I remember going to GPs or watching them on TV and that was fun. That element has virtually gone from F1 except for about three or four races.

[pauln]

Originally Posted by sparkione

They're a joke. JB got a flier of a start but ultimately could do nothing about Lulu and Ferdy when they hit the DRS zone. Where are we at when it's actually better [I]not[I]to make a great start, hang back and let legally adjustable drag do it all for you.

See also Raikkonen pulling off a good pass on Massa as he came out of the pits only to lose out to DRS. I do think it's a useful innovation that has it's place - I don't think it was in the right place for this race.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by sparkione

They're a joke. JB got a flier of a start but ultimately could do nothing about Lulu and Ferdy when they hit the DRS zone. Where are we at when it's actually better [I]not[I]to make a great start, hang back and let legally adjustable drag do it all for you.

I never liked DRS from the outset and the example you've given just goes to confirm what's wrong with DRS, afaIc. That was some excellent driving from Button, just to be taken away by the press of a button.

[Greem]

I gave it a 3. Quite possibly the most tedious race in a couple of years.

I second the DRS comments, too - I quite like the principal behind it, but I'd like to see it used as it is in practice & qualifying, unrestricted. Seeing who can push further into a braking zone (or even round a corner) with the wing open is something that separates the SimKids from the grown ups.

[nicanary]

I just had to add another comment. On the Nostalgia Forum they're constantly laughing at the F1 "fanboys" who get all worked up about modern GP races, arguing like numpties on Pistonheads with sometimes abusive language.

Out of curiosity, I just clicked-on and found two threads started today, one about the sanitisation of the circuits and the other about when will they stop watching F1. So even these guys, and some of them are nutters, are talking about how bad the whole thing has become. Will BCE realise this? Will he care?

Bernie seems hell-bent on getting developing nations interested in F1, but are the fans REALLY there? More empty stands yesterday....

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Greem

I second the DRS comments, too - I quite like the principal behind it, but I'd like to see it used as it is in practice & qualifying, unrestricted. Seeing who can push further into a braking zone (or even round a corner) with the wing open is something that separates the SimKids from the grown ups.

using it all the time would be better and at least open up the possibility that the better drivers will use more creatively then others. i suppose the downside is that some of the more 'aggressive' drivers will be causing more accidents.

only one way to find out but on the whole i would rather see it gone then tweaked.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by nicanary

Bernie seems hell-bent on getting developing nations interested in F1, but are the fans REALLY there? More empty stands yesterday....

im of mixed feeling on this. obviously the pressure to find the hosting fees and governments who are willing to subsidize them making it harder for the 'traditional' venues is a problem but on the other hand if BE had not made a move to developing nations combined with the economic uncertainty in the west we could have been looking at a future where there is only 10 or so races a year.

maybe that would be better though.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by nicanary

I just had to add another comment. On the Nostalgia Forum they're constantly laughing at the F1 "fanboys" who get all worked up about modern GP races, arguing like numpties on Pistonheads with sometimes abusive language.

Out of curiosity, I just clicked-on and found two threads started today, one about the sanitisation of the circuits and the other about when will they stop watching F1. So even these guys, and some of them are nutters, are talking about how bad the whole thing has become. Will BCE realise this? Will he care?

Bernie seems hell-bent on getting developing nations interested in F1, but are the fans REALLY there? More empty stands yesterday....

I personally think Bernie's sole interest in getting developing nations interested in F1 because they'll pay him $25m a year for 5 years, or however long the contract is, to join the exclusive F1 Club. Places like China and South Korea have never had a motorsports culture and are never going to develop one, or they would have done so already. Turkey bailed in the end, paying $25m a year for what?

[chillibowl]

they pay so we have things to watch on TV and provide the funding for greater prize money for the teams. why must we act like they are hurting us by doing this?

[nicanary]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I personally think Bernie's sole interest in getting developing nations interested in F1 because they'll pay him $25m a year for 5 years, or however long the contract is, to join the exclusive F1 Club. Places like China and South Korea have never had a motorsports culture and are never going to develop one, or they would have done so already. Turkey bailed in the end, paying $25m a year for what?

Exactly. The locals aren't interested. So the whole championship becomes a TV series from remote places, with real fans having to watch from home.

"This week, from Uzbekhistan, live on your screens...." You might as well hold the whole thing in an empty hangar in Area 51.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by nicanary

Exactly. The locals aren't interested. So the whole championship becomes a TV series from remote places, with real fans having to watch from home.

"This week, from Uzbekhistan, live on your screens...." You might as well hold the whole thing in an empty hangar in Area 51.

Or equally make up your own races rFactor.

[chillibowl]

you are making an assumption that the only way to be a real fan is if you can afford to go to races. if that holds true then those that actually attended the Indian GP are the real 'real fans' because they showed up so why would we be talking about depriving the real F1 fans in India a chance to go to a race?

i live in Winnipeg which is about 300km from Montreal which reportedly has one of the lowest of the hosting fees. to go to a race it cost me (between airfare, hotel, race tix, food etc) about 3-4K when i last attended in 2010. because i also live in a western nation means pretax i have to earn 7k to go away for a weekend.

essentially they are all events i watch on TV and that only becomes more true over time as prices naturally increase from one year to the next.

[Sodemo]

The race hosting fees only go up because Bernie says they have to. If he didn't put the prices up then the more "traditional" venues could still afford them easily. Didn't Singapore recently re-negotiate their contract to have a lower fee? I guess there though, Bernie kinda knows that its a unique race for the F1 calendar being set at night. Its quickly gained an iconic reputation, so the prospect of losing that race might have rung a bell in Bernie's head. I doubt he would have many problems ditching China, Bahrain, Korea, India, Abu Dhabi. However as long as the money keeps rolling in, I guess F1 will keep going there.