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Old 19 Mar 2013, 12:40 (Ref:3221143)   #26
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Yeah, the initial getaway wasn't great. Has Mark said anything about which aspect of his starts is problematic? How can the "second stage" of the getaway be the issue? I would've thought wheelspin off the line would be the main potential problem.
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Old 19 Mar 2013, 13:14 (Ref:3221162)   #27
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Interesting article.

So it's not his fault after all. It's Ron's fault.
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Old 19 Mar 2013, 14:42 (Ref:3221217)   #28
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Yeah, the initial getaway wasn't great. Has Mark said anything about which aspect of his starts is problematic? How can the "second stage" of the getaway be the issue? I would've thought wheelspin off the line would be the main potential problem.
Well you can still spin the wheels after the initial start if you bodge the gearchange or apply the KERS in a Horlicks-like fashion. Not to mention other variables like tyres, temperature and all that jazz.

I suppose the start procedure isn't really over until you get into the mid-higher gears and build up some momentum.
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Old 19 Mar 2013, 15:18 (Ref:3221232)   #29
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pauln should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridpauln should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
While Mclaren Electronic Systems say the problem was with Red Bull's systems not the ECU (which seems to have worked perfectly well for 21 other cars).
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106136
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Old 19 Mar 2013, 15:52 (Ref:3221246)   #30
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It was him! -> <- !mih saw tI

It'd be nice if they didn't work this out in the press, wouldn't it?
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Old 19 Mar 2013, 16:07 (Ref:3221255)   #31
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darcym should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think if you look at how Mark talks and the interviews he gives, he's a pretty straight up bloke, he holds his hands up and says "I've made a mess of that", he's doesn't seem to have any issue holding his hands up, I've seem him do it last year and/or the year before where he did say "I need to work on my starts", there is no point in blaming something else as the team will know about it so he's kidding no-one, so if he /the team say "it was $X problem" it seems reasonable to believe that.

he's got a seat in F1 because he's earned it/people believe he's the best man for the job, so no point or need calling for someone else to be in the seat as he drove a pretty good race considering he had no KERS and has done on various occasions.

It's the first race of the season, lets see what happens, I think Mark is aware of the problems he's had with starts and just needs to understand what he can do to make it better and remove any technical problems that hinder him
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Old 19 Mar 2013, 22:36 (Ref:3221441)   #32
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Some explanation maybe:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/mo...-1226601123196
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Old 19 Mar 2013, 22:51 (Ref:3221451)   #33
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Old 19 Mar 2013, 23:28 (Ref:3221462)   #34
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I wonder, Did Kovalainen and Bourdais get that kind of apology for their software failures back in 2008? Seems like it's just because "It's a Red Bull".
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Old 19 Mar 2013, 23:37 (Ref:3221463)   #35
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it's a red bull at his home gp, more like
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Old 19 Mar 2013, 23:37 (Ref:3221464)   #36
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mac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridmac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridmac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Kind of renders the previous two pages, bagging someone based on one start this season and ignoring the explanations of people who actually know (including the very open and honest driver), rather pointless and misguided...
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Old 19 Mar 2013, 23:51 (Ref:3221468)   #37
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What a clown outfit McLaren are, spoiling Mark's starts for 11 years and only just realising.
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Old 20 Mar 2013, 03:46 (Ref:3221522)   #38
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Kind of renders the previous two pages, bagging someone based on one start this season and ignoring the explanations of people who actually know (including the very open and honest driver), rather pointless and misguided...
well, it explains one bad one but he does have many many more ... I think thats the theme of the thread.
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Old 20 Mar 2013, 04:42 (Ref:3221529)   #39
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mac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridmac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridmac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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well, it explains one bad one but he does have many many more ... I think thats the theme of the thread.
He does... And it has been discussed ad nauseum in here.

This thread was prompted by one start this season, and used as an opportunity to jump back on to him - despite the team's and his almost immediate explanations for what occurred.

He has had terrible starts throughout his career, and may well continue to do so... I just find it ridiculous for everyone to jump on him, firstly, without knowing what happened, and secondly, continuing to do so despite every explanation given by Mark, Red Bull and, now, McLaren...
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Old 20 Mar 2013, 09:30 (Ref:3221590)   #40
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I could have started this thread any time and still got the same reaction from you mac tbf.

It is nothing personal, just genuinely curious as to the reasons behind Mark's starts. Just because this particular one wasn't entirely down to him (he still messed up partially himself anyways) doesn't render the question invalid.
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Old 20 Mar 2013, 11:58 (Ref:3221670)   #41
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one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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It is nothing personal, just genuinely curious as to the reasons behind Mark's starts. Just because this particular one wasn't entirely down to him (he still messed up partially himself anyways) doesn't render the question invalid.
It does when the topic has been done to death on this forum before

If Webber has a shocker all on his own this weekend, go for it, but considering Red Bull & McLaren have both backed Webber up on this, to start this thread in the manner it was started is ridiculous....
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Old 20 Mar 2013, 12:23 (Ref:3221680)   #42
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A quick forum search for Mark Webber threads throws up one related to starts. This one.

So can we just discuss the subject at hand rather than giving it this victim mentality?
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Old 20 Mar 2013, 12:39 (Ref:3221692)   #43
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F1Pete should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridF1Pete should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Webber is a solid guy, reasonable driver etc. The one thing he just can't seem to shake is bad luck. It has been around for a long time.
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Old 20 Mar 2013, 21:09 (Ref:3221929)   #44
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So can we just discuss the subject at hand rather than giving it this victim mentality?
That's a good guideline for the forum generally. Tempted to stick that in my sig.
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Old 20 Mar 2013, 22:39 (Ref:3221981)   #45
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I could have started this thread any time and still got the same reaction from you mac tbf.
Absolutely untrue... I do like Mark - more for the fact that he's not full of s*** than anything - but I've criticised him in the past, including for his starts...

Also my theory that when tyres and tyrewear are a critical factor, Webber struggles - his driving style is naturally hard on tyres.

So, while you're preaching forum etiquette, please don't paint me as some blinded "fanboy" (I hate that word), as a way of dismissing my point of view as being invalid, simply because it is contrary to yours...

Now... Back on topic (if we're not being specific). Yes, Mark's starts have traditionally been quite bad... He's put his hand up on the issue and worked on it with the team - let's see if it's made a difference (because we've got no real evidence yet this season).

Good to be back, Knowlesy...

I eagerly await your completely randomly inspired thread titled "Why Does Mark's Car Never Have KERS?"
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Old 21 Mar 2013, 02:12 (Ref:3222054)   #46
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Your point of view is not invalid. But the thread premise was fine. I am simply interested as to why Mark has always struggled with starts. It would be great to know the theory behind it.

In this instance it would seem his car was knobbled, I grant you. However, in years previously...

Is it technique or psychology? Or both?
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Old 21 Mar 2013, 04:04 (Ref:3222077)   #47
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Notso Swift should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
As you suggest Mac, it wouldn't be the F1 forum if Knowlsey wasn't Webber bashing!

But in his defence, we all acknowledge that his track record is lest than ideal, so lets flip it here

When has Webber ever had a blinder start.
And I mean a real blinder where like most other drivers have every now and again - jumping two rows kind of start. Alonso seems to do this all the time, even from his Renault days
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Old 21 Mar 2013, 05:24 (Ref:3222085)   #48
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As you suggest Mac, it wouldn't be the F1 forum if Knowlsey wasn't Webber bashing!
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Old 21 Mar 2013, 07:54 (Ref:3222128)   #49
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Webber is a solid guy, reasonable driver etc. The one thing he just can't seem to shake is bad luck. It has been around for a long time.
The 'Mark Webber bad luck' argument cracks me up every time!

Since he's been at Red Bull, I'd say Webber and Vettel have been equally unlucky. In 2010 though he had a ridiculous amount of good fortune. His teammate lost something like 65 points due to mechanical problems on his car. Mark lost none. He should have retired from the Singapore GP when Hamilton ran into him but still came 3rd. He made a complete hash of Korea and Abu Dhabi and lost the title.
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Old 21 Mar 2013, 12:17 (Ref:3222267)   #50
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Similar to the DC bad luck argument.
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