who has the best marshals in the world?

[Dave Brand]

As my old granny used to say: "self-praise is no recommendation".

[Shelagh]

Whenever the TV commentators say "British Marshals - best in the world", I always wince but take the compliment and the fact that the marshals are, at least, being mentioned.

Derek Ongaro always reckoned that the guys at Imola were better - but that was in the eighties. And it is no secret that the main inspection laps were brought about because in South America (and possibly elsewhere) (in the 70's and 80's) people would sign on and then disappear, so the powers that be had to check there were sufficient "marshals" before they started the event. Mind you, in those days they probably ran it anyway.

I think where the UK excels is in its commitment to the training and ongoing support of us marshals and the fact that we marshals commit ourselves to the sport. We don't turn up on the day to pick overalls off a clothes rail simply because we want the money they give us at the end of it (another lesson learned - don't pay up front).

And it is the UK trainers who are improving the marshalling around the world and picking up awards for doing so.

That, to me, is why we should be proud of our club. Not because we are "better at dealing with incidents".

(But, on a more personal note, we are definitely the best at flagging.)

[katrina.kershaw.7]

Well it's not korea is it? The 4x4 going around reminded me of the tactics at dtm where they recover it, doesn't work there either.

[Pete Howarth]

There are good and bad marshals everywhere, the goal should be to identify both and train the poor marshals.

[Steve Milward]

Originally Posted by Pete Howarth

There are good and bad marshals everywhere, the goal should be to identify both and train the poor marshals.

[b1ackcr0w]

There's only one question worth asking. How do we do it better next time?

[PVDA]

Marshals are only as good as their training and experience allows them to be but not where they come from.

I've seen a lot of good work in Australia totally trashed by some position fillers who should not be trackside doing things they've never been trained to do or know what to do if something happens.

We have many 20 year veterans, not people who have marshaled for 20 years but people with 1 years experience 20 times over.

Especially applies to some "Grand Prix" or "V8Supercar" specialists, those you only see at the big events.

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by Pete Howarth

There are good and bad marshals everywhere, the goal should be to identify both and train the poor marshals.

The good need to help the bad become good, the older I get the more I realise we have a responsibility to pass on our experience to those younger than us, if we can get them away from thier XBox's

[SouthportFC Fan]

How about banning smartphones on post ?

Blue touch paper lit, now retiring .......

[Greem]

We played host to a Taster Day attendee on post 6 at Donington on Sunday. We talked at some length about all the things that can distract you from the task at hand (including, with some irony, talking about things that can distract you!).

Playing the pragmatist, I explained that sometimes people need to take or make a call - in which case they should briefly stand down in order to do so. He explained that not having his phone was pretty liberating as he was self employed, so completely understood how much of an attention sink they can be!

We summed it up that if you must have your phone on you, put it in a pocket. Stand down to take or make a call (just a few steps behind the fence is enough). Don't, whatever you do, play Angry Birds/Candy Crush or go on Faceache/Twotter while you're supposed to be doing something else.

It isn't rocket science, is it?

[White flag man]

Originally Posted by PVDA

Marshals are only as good as their training and experience allows them to be but not where they come from.

I've seen a lot of good work in Australia totally trashed by some position fillers who should not be trackside doing things they've never been trained to do or know what to do if something happens.

We have many 20 year veterans, not people who have marshaled for 20 years but people with 1 years experience 20 times over.

Especially applies to some "Grand Prix" or "V8Supercar" specialists, those you only see at the big events.

You are not alone in this my friend, just waiting to see how many marshals there are at the final BTCC meeting this weekend, who will disappear the following weeks.
I do though, somewhat disagree with your opening statement. Yes , training and experience are important, but a marshal is only as good as they want to be. How many marshals don't ask Blackcrows' question "how can I do that better next time?". Even worse, how many marshals see it just as a social outing?
All of us like to have a laugh, but we were reminded several times only yesterday, that motorsport is extremely dangerous, and if we do not take care of ourselves, our colleagues and the drivers, people are going to get hurt.

[Terrible-Tones]

Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w

There's only one question worth asking. How do we do it better next time?

Indeed

[White flag man]

Originally Posted by White flag man

You are not alone in this my friend, just waiting to see how many marshals there are at the final BTCC meeting this weekend, who will disappear the following weeks.
I do though, somewhat disagree with your opening statement. Yes , training and experience are important, but a marshal is only as good as they want to be. How many marshals don't ask Blackcrows' question "how can I do that better next time?". Even worse, how many marshals see it just as a social outing?
All of us like to have a laugh, but we were reminded several times only yesterday, that motorsport is extremely dangerous, and if we do not take care of ourselves, our colleagues and the drivers, people are going to get hurt.

So, how many marshals do we have for the final BTCC meeting;
We have a total of 264 incident marshals, which includes 97 trainees!
There will be 26 posts to man. There are 49 flag marshals.
However there will only be 24 post chiefs, not enough for one per post.
So around the circuit, not including startline, they will be 337 marshals, and 27 teddy bear!!
I wonder how many will be there for the Formula Ford meeting 2 weeks later?

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by White flag man

I wonder how many will be there for the Formula Ford meeting 2 weeks later?

To misquote Goodwood - no crowd and the right crowd.

[Steve Milward]

Originally Posted by White flag man

So, how many marshals do we have for the final BTCC meeting;
We have a total of 264 incident marshals, which includes 97 trainees!
There will be 26 posts to man. There are 49 flag marshals.
However there will only be 24 post chiefs, not enough for one per post.
So around the circuit, not including startline, they will be 337 marshals, and 27 teddy bear!!
I wonder how many will be there for the Formula Ford meeting 2 weeks later?

And here lies the rub, the main days for recruitment are at the BTCC and the following of marshals for that series is already high. The problem you have then is that there's too many marshals per post and as such the chance of actually attending an incident and learning by experience is reduced significantly.

I realise there is a balancing act as we need to increase the numbers of new marshals but having hundreds of trainees that don't get the exposure to incidents to learn by experience really isn't doing anyone any good.

Maybe if the BTCC was only open to Track marshals and above then this would provide the incentive to progress but at least with experience from other race series. Of course that also then breeds the lesser spotted signature hunter and that then leads us full circle to the potential flaw in the grading system.

Lastly and sorry if I'm being negative but I just don't get the teddy bears thing. I'm still struggling to find a) The need to own one b) the need to bring it to a race circuit c) the need to sit it on the post.

Answers on a postcard please

[exflagman]

Originally Posted by Steve Milward

The problem you have then is that there's too many marshals per post

But not enough flag marshals to fully implement the proposed changes to the yellow flag rules!

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Steve Milward

Lastly and sorry if I'm being negative but I just don't get the teddy bears thing. I'm still struggling to find a) The need to own one b) the need to bring it to a race circuit c) the need to sit it on the post.
Answers on a postcard please

I have no idea why teddy bears - monkeys are the things to have.

My mission motorsport monkey has been on post in UK, USA and Canada. It gets a good location at the post for the simple reason it catches photographers eyes and often gets snapped and included in an album or two - giving valuable exposure to a worthwhile charity or someone will ask where to get one from - and the money from their sale also goes to the charity.

Hope that's a postcards worth!

[mini1400]

Originally Posted by White flag man

So, how many marshals do we have for the final BTCC meeting;
We have a total of 264 incident marshals, which includes 97 trainees!
There will be 26 posts to man. There are 49 flag marshals.
However there will only be 24 post chiefs, not enough for one per post.
So around the circuit, not including startline, they will be 337 marshals, and 27 teddy bear!!
I wonder how many will be there for the Formula Ford meeting 2 weeks later?

Make that 48 flag marshals, I've had to pull out for various reasons, but will be there for the Festival

[Shelagh]

As with F1, we have long since given up BTCC meetings because we didn't think they needed us. Far rather watch it on TV or attend a clubbie event instead.

[rob wheeler]

Blimey 337 marshals at one meeting, i wonder how many that leaves for 750 at cadwell and barc at silverstone? I can't help but feel that your much more likely to learn how to do something right at a clubbie rather than an oversubscribed run for tv meeting, especially for the 97 trainees.

mind you cadwell in all its autumnal glory wont be as glamorous as btcc finals at brands and therein lies the rub.

[racerkeke]

Originally Posted by White flag man

So, how many marshals do we have for the final BTCC meeting;
We have a total of 264 incident marshals, which includes 97 trainees!
There will be 26 posts to man. There are 49 flag marshals.
However there will only be 24 post chiefs, not enough for one per post.
So around the circuit, not including startline, they will be 337 marshals, and 27 teddy bear!!

(Warning: incendiary comments follow.)

WHAT? 337 marshals???? You guys are laughing. Or tripping over each other! I just finished a major three-day pro event (ALMS at VIR) with a total of 63 marshals for 17 posts, which includes flag chief and one assistant, logger/backup race control comm, start and grid. Because we use a different response approach, I should add in another 48 emergency crew for the weekend. In this case the number of trainees was low -- probably not more than 10% of the total. But they are included in the numbers above.

The number you've quoted (teddy bears notwithstanding) tells me that perhaps part of your perception of British marshals being the best stems from sheer numbers. Having so many people available allows you the luxury of having some dead wood while still looking good. Try that with three people per post.

(I'll get my coat...)

keke

[White flag man]

Originally Posted by racerkeke

(Warning: incendiary comments follow.)

WHAT? 337 marshals???? You guys are laughing. Or tripping over each other! I just finished a major three-day pro event (ALMS at VIR) with a total of 63 marshals for 17 posts, which includes flag chief and one assistant, logger/backup race control comm, start and grid. Because we use a different response approach, I should add in another 48 emergency crew for the weekend. In this case the number of trainees was low -- probably not more than 10% of the total. But they are included in the numbers above.

The number you've quoted (teddy bears notwithstanding) tells me that perhaps part of your perception of British marshals being the best stems from sheer numbers. Having so many people available allows you the luxury of having some dead wood while still looking good. Try that with three people per post.


(I'll get my coat...)

keke

Keke,
my point is, and that of PVDA, the fact that in a lot of club meetings, we are very short on numbers, sometimes fewer than 3 per post, but the "so called" big meetings like BTCC attract people who do not seem to do anything else.
Yes, we will be tripping over ourselves, which causes a safety issue in the result of a n incident and, at worst, a car could come off and play skittles.
You will also get the possibility of 8 marshals going to one car, not good.

[racerkeke]

Originally Posted by White flag man

Keke,
my point is, and that of PVDA, the fact that in a lot of club meetings, we are very short on numbers, sometimes fewer than 3 per post, but the "so called" big meetings like BTCC attract people who do not seem to do anything else.

And my point is that even for the big events we are often three per post in North America. At the Toronto Indy (doubleheader street race weekend with three or four support series, it's all a kind of blur now) we ran one of the hottest turns on the track plus two supporting stations (an "in" and an "out") with a total of eight marshals, including two trainees. We did have emergency crew support for our runoff (four) but they were not under our control.

This is in no way a slam at marshal recruiting efforts for the Toronto races, since promoter's limitations come into play for pro events. They want to pay for the fewest passes/lunches and the least visible support. I guess that's another difference between North America and other places.
keke

[skeee]

Originally Posted by snoz wanger

Best Marshals in the world?..........The ones who get out there and make a difference to the meeting, the ones who don't moan all day about short or no lunch breaks, the ones who know how to laugh and still do a professional and safe job .....and most important of all the ones who can talk complete garbage about strange obscure things all day and yet still appear to be interesting.....
Ill get me Coat............

Can I collect my trophy now, or will it be presented at the Truck Weekend in November?