How to ruin the Clipsal 500

[chavez]

Originally Posted by peckstar

crowds are bigger now than in the past, must be doing something right

For some events, but for others, like the Sandown 500, not even close.

But I don't blame V8 Supercars trying to best accommodate TV - it is the measure by which the sport will live or die.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by chavez

For some events, but for others, like the Sandown 500, not even close.

But I don't blame V8 Supercars trying to best accommodate TV - it is the measure by which the sport will live or die.

was talking about Bathurst

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by JAFA851

Yes very true. I find it very disturbing that, each year now, any old schmoo will win Bathurst ( Championship driver must stay in car and get rent-a-codriver ). For me that takes A LOT away from what was once truly The Great Race. When you look at the likes of Glenn Seton and other great drivers who won the championship and were at the sharp end for years and years but couldn't crack it on one Sunday in October, to see grid fillers like Paul Dumbrell win last year, really really grinds my gears. One could argue they've bought themselves a Bathurst win, after all there are plenty of drivers better than them looking for enduro drives, but once again the almighty dollar trumps all.

I don't know why the sports' management insist on keeping on trying to cut down the tall poppies. I hate Triple Eight with a passion, but at the same time I can appreciate the position they've got themselves into, and that's through hard work and dedication. As Larry Perkins said, you do your winning in the garage before the race, the race is just the end result of that work. The rules are made, and changed, to make the cars as even as possible, yet T8 keep on winning, and quite often easily. No matter what you change, the cream will always rise to the top. As boring as it might be, I'd rather watch someone absolutely flog the opposition than some orchestrated safety car half-a-second win, such as has been the norm at Bathurst over the last few years. Don't get me started on Matt White and him screaming about the closest finish ever, what a load of crap!!!! While it is true, it isn't genuine ( safety car induced ).

isnt it bathurst tradition that any old Schmoo can win bathurst, It was just in a few elitist years that things were different, even though old schmoos were still racing in that time and still winning and often against professional drivers.

the 12 hour use a similar format, do you have an issue with it there also?

[Chris - Melb]

Originally Posted by JAFA851

Yes very true. I find it very disturbing that, each year now, any old schmoo will win Bathurst ( Championship driver must stay in car and get rent-a-codriver ). For me that takes A LOT away from what was once truly The Great Race. When you look at the likes of Glenn Seton and other great drivers who won the championship and were at the sharp end for years and years but couldn't crack it on one Sunday in October, to see grid fillers like Paul Dumbrell win last year, really really grinds my gears...

You would have hated the 1968 version of the 'once Great Race' as you put it. Bruce McPhee only had a co-driver because it was compulsory and that guy only did one single lap of the race but still remains in the history books as a Bathurst winner.

[fomoco]

So the " SPIN " has started:

"From the fans' perspective it will be really cool and that's all that matters because we are entertainment, it's pretty awesome watching the cars go around at that time of the day," Slade said

full article:
http://www.news.com.au/sport/motor-s...-1226759363537

more spin
http://www.news.com.au/sport/motor-s...-1226759342113

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Chris - Melb

You would have hated the 1968 version of the 'once Great Race' as you put it. Bruce McPhee only had a co-driver because it was compulsory and that guy only did one single lap of the race but still remains in the history books as a Bathurst winner.

would have hated 2005 also, some schmoo got up that year. oh wait Todd was a full time HRT driver

[champcarman]

Not sure this is such a bad thing, personally I think shorter races are the way to go in this day and age.

I was disappointed to see the Townsville races extended to 250 kms so hopefully the same thing will happen there and at Homebush and Gold Coast.

Attracting young people and improving TV ratings is what V8 Supercars should be aiming for.

Young people today have short attention spans and getting them away from their phones, I pads, I pods, and x boxes for very long is pretty difficult.

Not long ago it was hard to get seats at a Nascar event now the sport is struggling to fill seats. Why? Because the races are long drawn out affairs with little action until near the end. This is also one reason why Rallycross is probably the only real growth area in world motorsport today. Short sharp action filled races.

I am not a real fan of twilight races but if it gets motor racing into more loungerooms then it cannot be to bad.

If in the end it all leads to better outcome in the next TV deal, therefore leading to better income for the sport and it's major stakeholders (the Teams) then it is worth a try!

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by peckstar

isnt it bathurst tradition that any old Schmoo can win bathurst, It was just in a few elitist years that things were different, even though old schmoos were still racing in that time and still winning and often against professional drivers.

the 12 hour use a similar format, do you have an issue with it there also?

Until 2010 teams were always free to pair drivers as they liked.For some this meant pairing regular full time drivers and for others this meant splitting them.The move to a mandated Pro-Am driver format for the race meant that the race feels much more like a regular championship round than it ever has before and I have been attending it since 1967.This is not a good thing for the unique atmosphere the race once had.The 12 Hour (and GT racing worldwide with the exception of GT Pro at Le Mans ) has always had these rules so its hardly messing with it's tradition.
I couldn't really care if V8SA made the drivers co-drive with their mother in laws at Sandown and Gold Coast but Bathurst is different and it is special.V8SA have only had grudging recognition of this since Day 1 (1996).
PSBack in 1968 Bruce McPhee was basically a once a year driver in a privateer entry.His co driver was a 1 lap special because Bruce wanted to drive the whole race but the rules wouldn't let him.That rule was changed for 1970.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Until 2010 teams were always free to pair drivers as they liked.For some this meant pairing regular full time drivers and for others this meant splitting them.The move to a mandated Pro-Am driver format for the race meant that the race feels much more like a regular championship round than it ever has before and I have been attending it since 1967.This is not a good thing for the unique atmosphere the race once had.The 12 Hour (and GT racing worldwide with the exception of GT Pro at Le Mans ) has always had these rules so its hardly messing with it's tradition.
I couldn't really care if V8SA made the drivers co-drive with their mother in laws at Sandown and Gold Coast but Bathurst is different and it is special.V8SA have only had grudging recognition of this since Day 1 (1996).
PSBack in 1968 Bruce McPhee was basically a once a year driver in a privateer entry.His co driver was a 1 lap special because Bruce wanted to drive the whole race but the rules wouldn't let him.That rule was changed for 1970.

I think it is a good thing, This year we had 6 cars fighting for the win a few seconds apart after 3 Safety car free hours. Thats awesome. Better than any race under the old rules

the race still has a unique atmoshpere because its at Bathurst. its 1000km it goes 6 hours plus. unlike no other v8 round.

Clipsal also has a unique atmosphere, because its in Adelaide right next to the city and the crowd is much bigger than Bathurst has ever been.

[JAFA851]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Until 2010 teams were always free to pair drivers as they liked.For some this meant pairing regular full time drivers and for others this meant splitting them.The move to a mandated Pro-Am driver format for the race meant that the race feels much more like a regular championship round than it ever has before and I have been attending it since 1967.This is not a good thing for the unique atmosphere the race once had.The 12 Hour (and GT racing worldwide with the exception of GT Pro at Le Mans ) has always had these rules so its hardly messing with it's tradition.
I couldn't really care if V8SA made the drivers co-drive with their mother in laws at Sandown and Gold Coast but Bathurst is different and it is special.V8SA have only had grudging recognition of this since Day 1 (1996).
PSBack in 1968 Bruce McPhee was basically a once a year driver in a privateer entry.His co driver was a 1 lap special because Bruce wanted to drive the whole race but the rules wouldn't let him.That rule was changed for 1970.

Exactly my point. When the rules were open as to how you had for the 2 drivers, if rank outsider ( schmoo ) got up and won it against all the "pros", then they must have been doing a very very good job, and they've obviously deserved the win. Some of the races where the underdogs got up and won are the best and people remember them because the underdog beat the pros. With the rules these days, a grid filler will win it every year regardless. Even the likes of Steven Richards who won it twice in his day, apart from those 2 wins didn't really set the world on fire, yet has got another Bathurst win, and has hardly set the Carrera Cup field on fire either, rather miss-fired. I just think the teams should be allowed free choice of their driver pairings, just like the old days. It would bring more creditability back to the race.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by JAFA851

Exactly my point. When the rules were open as to how you had for the 2 drivers, if rank outsider ( schmoo ) got up and won it against all the "pros", then they must have been doing a very very good job, and they've obviously deserved the win. Some of the races where the underdogs got up and won are the best and people remember them because the underdog beat the pros. With the rules these days, a grid filler will win it every year regardless. Even the likes of Steven Richards who won it twice in his day, apart from those 2 wins didn't really set the world on fire, yet has got another Bathurst win, and has hardly set the Carrera Cup field on fire either, rather miss-fired. I just think the teams should be allowed free choice of their driver pairings, just like the old days. It would bring more creditability back to the race.

so let me discuss credibility

we can have 28 cars of 1 fulltime driver and 1 part time.
or we can have 14 cars of combined drivers and 14 non full time drivers.
or even, and here is the funniest one, and the one that gave us ten years in a row dominated by 2 teams we can have a couple of teams who can combine their full time drivers up against teams that because of sponsorship cant and so have to bring in part timers, yes that sounds fair and credible

sorry your old fashioned idea lacks any form of credibility. its why we moved away from there.

and even worse it needs late race safety cars to make the racing interesting

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by JAFA851

Exactly my point. When the rules were open as to how you had for the 2 drivers, if rank outsider ( schmoo ) got up and won it against all the "pros", then they must have been doing a very very good job, and they've obviously deserved the win. Some of the races where the underdogs got up and won are the best and people remember them because the underdog beat the pros. With the rules these days, a grid filler will win it every year regardless. Even the likes of Steven Richards who won it twice in his day, apart from those 2 wins didn't really set the world on fire, yet has got another Bathurst win, and has hardly set the Carrera Cup field on fire either, rather miss-fired. I just think the teams should be allowed free choice of their driver pairings, just like the old days. It would bring more creditability back to the race.

Let's quietly leave the building together.There is no point being here.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Let's quietly leave the building together.There is no point being here.

Take your bat and ball with you

[Chris - Melb]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Let's quietly leave the building together.There is no point being here.

Don't go; this forum needs people like you with passionate views

[mayhem]

Originally Posted by Average Punter

There is only Bathurst.

Everything else is just waiting.......

The 'new' Bathurst: 10 x 100km sprints...

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Razor

Already have, no longer the final race of the year,

Bathurst was only ever the final race of the year four times, from 1997-2000

In all years before 1997 and after 2000, there were always races after Bathurst.

[JAFA851]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Let's quietly leave the building together.There is no point being here.

Yes I agree. Seems like some people have a barrow to push, maybe they are tied up with the people changing formats willy nilly?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by JAFA851

Yes I agree. Seems like some people have a barrow to push, maybe they are tied up with the people changing formats willy nilly?

Reading your posts in this thread you appear to be pushing a barrow also.

just an old rusty one with a wobbly wheel with rose coloured handles

But seriously we can argue about the pros and cons of bathurst changes for ever, we will disagree, however this is a Clipsal thread and changes have happened

interestingly some like the changes and some dont. however we do know this. the series wants a better paying telecast and its wants to try post news races. This is a good opportunity to do it because of the daylight savings issue. The cars will look great although the shadows will eb interesting, especially if there is a safety car

[NaBUru38]

I support the new Super Sprint format. Major championships should have a feature race. And I think that Townsville and Sydney should adopt the Adelaide format as well.