New Aero For All in 2015..

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Nah, hasn't been established at all - I'm having a really good laugh now at how anyone could draw such a ridiculous conclusion.

It has been established.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

It has been established.

[mod]STUFF GONE[/mod]

Back on topic, it's good that the recent aero testing has validated the existing methodology and that there is now more gear to get into the process even deeper.

With new models for Ford and (I think) Benz on the way, there may well be a new round of tests to come to get the new stuff all lined up with what we have now.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

[mod]STUFF GONE[/mod]

Back on topic, it's good that the recent aero testing has validated the existing methodology and that there is now more gear to get into the process even deeper.

With new models for Ford and (I think) Benz on the way, there may well be a new round of tests to come to get the new stuff all lined up with what we have now.

So, what I see is that whenever changes are made they are always in favour of the holden teams eg. this aero discussion and the continual monitoring of the quad cam engines power output, when holden have free reign to develop their own engines.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

So, what I see is that whenever changes are made they are always in favour of the holden teams eg. this aero discussion and the continual monitoring of the quad cam engines power output, when holden have free reign to develop their own engines.

Both Ford & Holden appear to have been able to keep developing their pushrod engines & from recent comments it appears that Nissan and Mercedes are now being given more latitude. The accusation that Volvo was able to do things with their engine that MB wasn't permitted to indicates that the engine parity process has been an ongoing development. Hopefully now it'll be close to sorted.

On the aero, from memory the decision was taken with COTF to go with a common wing element for the rear wing, with length of that element for each car to be determined by aero comparison tests. When the first tests were done, the Ford was producing more downforce at the rear than the Holden, so the Ford length was adjusted to keep the downforce the same. Again, from memory, the VE was the reference point for the testing so any other car needed to be at that same point.

Happy to be corrected on this, feels like forever ago.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Both Ford & Holden appear to have been able to keep developing their pushrod engines & from recent comments it appears that Nissan and Mercedes are now being given more latitude. The accusation that Volvo was able to do things with their engine that MB wasn't permitted to indicates that the engine parity process has been an ongoing development. Hopefully now it'll be close to sorted.

On the aero, from memory the decision was taken with COTF to go with a common wing element for the rear wing, with length of that element for each car to be determined by aero comparison tests. When the first tests were done, the Ford was producing more downforce at the rear than the Holden, so the Ford length was adjusted to keep the downforce the same. Again, from memory, the VE was the reference point for the testing so any other car needed to be at that same point.

Happy to be corrected on this, feels like forever ago.

Thanks for the info. Can you tell me why they don't have restrictor plates for engine parity rather than the developments that the teams are currently going through?.........it would seem to be simpler.

Have a good day Tourer.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Thanks for the info. Can you tell me why they don't have restrictor plates for engine parity rather than the developments that the teams are currently going through?.........it would seem to be simpler.

Have a good day Tourer.

It was looked at a very long time ago - the late, great Howard Marsden was keen on the idea from memory.

I think the issue was that the completely different bonnet shapes on the (then) two competing makes meant that the air boxes on each were substantially different - meaning that a common air box design and maybe bonnet bulge might have to be developed to allow for air restrictors to deliver the same outcome for each make. With both having pushrod engines at the time, other measures were used to maintain technical parity.

If it had been persevered with, it could well be quite handy now with different types of engine in use. Who, knows - they may even be looking at it.

[Denosaur]

Originally Posted by Tourer

I think the issue was that the completely different bonnet shapes on the (then) two competing makes meant that the air boxes on each were substantially different - meaning that a common air box design and maybe bonnet bulge might have to be developed to allow for air restrictors to deliver the same outcome for each make. With both having pushrod engines at the time, other measures were used to maintain technical parity.

From memory the 427 Monaro that GRM ran in the Nations Cup had the restrictor mounted inside the airbox, around about where it curves up at the top of the radiator. They ran a similar box as per the V8SC back then.

Since that's the standard application for getting air into the box, not that hard to insert a restrictor in there, and seal the rest of the box.

As a matter of fact, I'd like to see this trialed to see if it can be an alternative to having compulsory pit stops and increase the fuel mileage on the Ford and Holden units.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Denosaur

From memory the 427 Monaro that GRM ran in the Nations Cup had the restrictor mounted inside the airbox, around about where it curves up at the top of the radiator. They ran a similar box as per the V8SC back then.

Since that's the standard application for getting air into the box, not that hard to insert a restrictor in there, and seal the rest of the box.

As a matter of fact, I'd like to see this trialed to see if it can be an alternative to having compulsory pit stops and increase the fuel mileage on the Ford and Holden units.

I think there were differences between the Ford & Holden air boxes back in the day & some doubt over the true parity as a result but then it could simply have been that there wasn't enough desire / support for it.

It definitely has merit but I have no idea if it is being considered at all.

[Denosaur]

Originally Posted by Tourer

I think there were differences between the Ford & Holden air boxes back in the day & some doubt over the true parity as a result but then it could simply have been that there wasn't enough desire / support for it.

It definitely has merit but I have no idea if it is being considered at all.

There's a difference between all of them if you find the Tech-talk clip on the Erebus V8 car. End of the day, the restrictor does an obvious job.

I very much doubt anyone from VESA would be reading this, but it would be good if they looked at it.

[Denosaur]

Don't know if it has been bought up before, but has anyone considered a common floor and rear diffuser?? Bolt that on, mandate a minimum ride height and skid plate wear??

Would give some sort of base downforce....before the front and rear wing are applied?

[GTRMagic]

NisMo Wants New Aero. Again.



3rd time lucky?

[peckstar]

Ford want a new bonnet. but apparently there are some things that have to represent a road car. What a stupid rule. Front guards that are composite and weigh a kilogram compared to bonnets that must be original material with an up to 5 kg weight difference

[TSR]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Ford want a new bonnet. but apparently there are some things that have to represent a road car. What a stupid rule. Front guards that are composite and weigh a kilogram compared to bonnets that must be original material with an up to 5 kg weight difference

Thats the rule of v8supercar Peckstar, stupid I know

[mikuni]

Kind of cool, use as much of the road car as possible. If you have a problem, write to Ford and ask them to build a better (lighter) road car to use. Even the new Falcon still retains a steel bonnet and boot, so they obviously aren't too worried about it.

I would say V8SC would prefer as many panels as possible were retained from the original road going vehicle, however the manipulation involved in making each vehicle body meet the chassis requirements mean this would be impossible.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Ford want a new bonnet. but apparently there are some things that have to represent a road car. What a stupid rule. Front guards that are composite and weigh a kilogram compared to bonnets that must be original material with an up to 5 kg weight difference

Do Ford want a new bonnet or do FPR want a new bonnet?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Do Ford want a new bonnet or do FPR want a new bonnet?

FPR who are homogenizing the new FG X

[GTRMagic]

The problem with new bonnets is how precisely would you make them? The stamping plant at Broadmeadows doesnt use aluminium now, so its not likely to be doing that job for a one off...

.. while some teams wreck a bonnet every race.. so do you make 40 bonnets per car per season, and plan for how many cars and how many seasons...

You might argue that its a bit beyond the regular cottage industry to hand fashion that many of anything, let alone a huge disposable like a bonnet...

[ForumNick]

Originally Posted by peckstar

FPR who are homogenizing the new FG X

homogenizing ?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by ForumNick

homogenizing ?

i was just re-reading that and i suddenly had a desire for a glass of milk then i saw your comment

hopefully bluesport worked it out

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The problem with new bonnets is how precisely would you make them? The stamping plant at Broadmeadows doesnt use aluminium now, so its not likely to be doing that job for a one off...

.. while some teams wreck a bonnet every race.. so do you make 40 bonnets per car per season, and plan for how many cars and how many seasons...

You might argue that its a bit beyond the regular cottage industry to hand fashion that many of anything, let alone a huge disposable like a bonnet...

same way you make guards and doors i imagine. Dont think they are a road going product anyway, much less bracing.

40 per car equals 200 plus that have to be built, I would give it a crack if asked

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by peckstar

i was just re-reading that and i suddenly had a desire for a glass of milk then i saw your comment

hopefully bluesport worked it out

Good response pecky.

I eventually worked it out, but at first I thought FPR must have a new sponsor in Dairy Farmers.

[RedZedMikey]

Originally Posted by peckstar

same way you make guards and doors I imagine. Dont think they are a road going product anyway, much less bracing.

That would be relevant if the bonnet was going to be made from composites. Don't think that's going to happen without a wholesale rule change - and perhaps the amount of material that would end up on track after nose-to-tails is something that V8SC would not want.

My impression was that Ford were not chasing the ability to use an aluminium bonnet/boot, (as GTR said, they aren't going to tool up an aluminium stamping plant now), but they were looking for a 10kg weight reduction to get the same effect.

[GTRMagic]

Nissan Completes Private Aero Tests At Avalon

Presumably under the instruction & control of V8SC

Woomeragate made the Kelvinmonster aroused at the possibility of killing Team Dynamik back in the day, you would hope the C8SC machine wouldnt need that lind of stimulation at this time of year

Also confirmed is that Volvo & Erebus arent resetting their aero..

[rik]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Woomeragate made the Kelvinmonster aroused at the possibility of killing Team Dynamik back in the day, you would hope the C8SC machine wouldnt need that lind of stimulation at this time of year

Maybe V8SC would like to kill off Nismo after they have complained so publically about 12hr clash!

[Umai Naa]

Unless they're doing all 5 shapes on the same day at the same location, its not worth doing.