Formula Honda

[louis]

tim you sound like my gran

Jr Ewing- "Always one or two quick at the front but the rest would be absolutely nowhere in a mainstream, professional formula like Zetecs or even Kents"

kents ???? thats a bloody club series for old has beens

[JR Ewing]

aaahhh
Louis, i thought you would take the bait quicker than you did!

[DSMJUNIOR]

A few short questions for a couple of you:

Firstly, JR Ewing. You seem to be the one bad mouthing Formula Honda the most so i'll start with you. For starters what exactly do you race? No bull about "having a quick go in this" or "having a test in that" what formula do you presently compete in on a regular basis? Have you ever driven a formula honda? Have you ever driven a Kart for that matter?!? If you have driven both then i wouldn't mind a go in that kart with a 110-120 bhp engine, wings and capable of smashing the outright lap record around Anglesey! I see you come from the midlands. Why don't you pop over to Mallory on the 16th of June and meet some of us? Come over and have a chat with us, take a look at the cars (if you are really good we may let you sit in one!!!). Don't judge us till you have had a proper watch of the races (this year) and spoken to us or possibly payng a couple of hundred pound to Jedi and having a go yourself in one of these so called "overgrown kart". I'll be there (number 22) so don't be shy!

Next on to 27Tim: Have you seen a formula honda crash? Has the person been hurt? I think i can predict the answer to be no! I know that you only think that the fhondas look a bit unsafe but didn't your mother ever tell you not to judge a book by its cover?!! What do you actually race? I think if you took a closer look at one your opinion will be changed.

Thats it for now as i have wasted enpough time at this damn computer. I hope to see JR at Mallory and 27Tim if you are free and its not to much hastle come over and have a look around.

[Spinner]

Does anyone know how many cars were at Oulton?

[AndyF]

Originally posted by Spinner
Does anyone know how many cars were at Oulton?

10 Starters; 9 Finishers

[Dan Friel]

I note that the time difference between the front of the grod and the rear was in the region of 15 seconds..

[AndyF]

The Fastest race lap was at an average of 95mph around Oulton Park. Not bad IMO!

I think the lack of cars is down to the running of 5 races in 3 weeks!

There have been seventeen point scorers so far this season - so hopefully more cars will be out next time!

[Andy Roberts]

Yeah there were far to many races at the start of the season which has all but crippled the grid size. Hopefully everything will be back to normal at Mallory on 16th June as the first round at Cadwell had 17 cars.

The lap time difference is so big because one of the cars is running a more advanced aero(wings and bodywork) package which is allowed in the rules and coupled with a good driver is giving him almost a second a lap advantage. As this kit costs over £2000 to upgrade to he is going to have an easy run of it this year as no one is going to spend that sort of money on updating the cars.

Shame as its a cracking formula!

[davieR]

....DAN FRIEL, the reason for the time difference between the front and back was due to one car out on slicks, NOT done to a driver. So take that away and everyone was within a few seconds of each other. Not bad seeing as this is the first or second season of car racing for many!!

[Dan Friel]

That's a relief...

I think what Andy has said confirms that the series will struggle to survive..

[Dave Brand]

The problem at Oulton was not the size of the field, or the speeds involved - it was just a dull, processional race!

[27tim]

Louis,

LoL, I just hope I don't look like your gran too!

DSMJunior,

I don't need to see one crash to know they are unsafe, same way as I don't need to hit my thumb with a hammer to know its going to hurt! Old design, lack of head protection, no FIA crash testing, not much in the way of deformable structures etc etc...All points to an unsafe car to me, or perhaps I should say a car that isn't as safe as other more modern formulas. I'm not knocking it too much, its just my point of view, and why I wouldn't race them. As for my racing, I'm not sure what that has to do with the disscussion but I'm doing a full season in a slicks and wings formula.

[27tim]

i forgot to say...But as long as you and Louis are comfortable racing them and have fun thats all that matters...Have fun!

Thanks for the invite to Mallory, but I'll give it a miss. I don't think my g.f would be too pleased with even more racing circuits

[Old Ropey]

Sure nothing is perfect, but for folks like us, father & son looking to move on from karts into a cheap single seater category, the Honda engined Jedi is absolutely ideal.
As the guy paying the bills, I looked at every option. For 9 grand I got a car with a stack of spares, which is quicker than Radical 1100's & most FF Zetecs, eg less than 1 second off the works Van Diemans at Croft, runs a virtually standard production engine(£400 from a breaker) sounds fantastic, great help & not expensive parts from Jedi. I could go on, but won't.
Not that it matters because we are doing it for fun, but people are watching as phone calls from F Renault demonstrate.
The, to me, vast sums quoted to do the likes of the new BMW, Renault & Zip are ridiculous. Our season costs will be around £5,000 mainly entries and tyres, which must be much the same as racing a Fiesta or Mini. And I'll have a car to sell if we decide to do something else.
Of course bigger grids would be great, though I'm sure the 20 at Cadwell will be repeated now we'll be at Mallory, Snetterton & Brands & not in the far flung North. All you doubters come & have a look, better still, hire a car from Jedi & give F Honda a go.

[JR Ewing]

Sorry to upset you DSM.
I've seen enough F600 races since inception.
I was perhaps rather abrupt but my basic points remain factual, I believe.
If F600 (or FH etc.) does end this year as a standalone formula, as I undertand it will, I will not be celebrating at all.
I just think that people should stop trying to claim it is something it isn't. Promote it as a cost effective, exciting way into fast single seaters - not as an alternative to professional series.
Criticising Zips seems to be similar to what you are accusing me of doing to F600.
Zips are a different thing to FH and you cannot compare them at all.
Speed/looks are one thing - promotability and professionalism are totally different.
JR

[RobH]

I have raced in both F600 and more recently in Mono1200. I must say that the Jedi chassis is the best value for performance car I have seen. The mono 1200's are now regularly posting faster lap times the the 2 litre mono's. I watched the FH round at Croft recently and was very impressed with the standards. I hope FH manages to continue next year ... although I think some changes will be needed if it is to be successful. Possibly making an under 25's age limit??

[RMR]

Why would an age limit make it successful???

[Dan Friel]

it would just exclude half the grid.. and you'd be down to 5 cars.

[RobH]

I think people moving from karting would rather compete against other young guys on the way up ... rather than go head to head with very experienced class specialists, who they are unlikely to get the better of in their first year of competition

[RMR]

ahh I see. Fair enough, but isnt the point of club racing more of a hobby than a stepping stone to a career??Also If it was me I would rather race against experienced Good racers where I could learn more. Dunno thats me lanyway, but I see where your coming from

[Philip C]

Goin back to what DSM junior mentioned earlier bout having a shunt in a F honda I thought I would write to tell you about how safe the cars actually are. At Cadwell at the beginning of the year, i put two wheels on the wrong side of the kerb coming out of charlies 1 and lost the back end. the dirt did little to slow me down and i went head on into the tractor tire wall (to make it worse the tires were full of mud and rocks). I hit at about 100mph and it was my first real shunt in a single seater. However i sustained nothing more than brusing to my knees and shoulders. The car was destroyed but i jumped out and walked away. I am confident that the car is safe and that jedi hav designed it to be strong enough to protect the driver in a crash.

[Jim Tom]

Why do people think that its the car that makes a Formula good? If this was the case, there would be 5000 HP versions of Formula Ones that are capable of 600mph! IMO, what makes a category good is:

1. Close Racing
2. Quality Teams & Presentation
3. Quality Television
4. A good deph of talent - not just one or two quick guys out the front.
5. Proven Path to Success (most important I believe)

Personally, I don't believe in one make formulas, because they don't show the technical knowledge of a driver (to set up and develop a car), but only show if a particular drivers style matches the set up of the car.

The proven path to success is the most important. If you want to be a professional racing driver, you have to race where you'll be noticed, in a relevant car. IMO, Formula 3, F3000, FFord are these formulas (including overseas championships like F-nippon and F-Atlantic etc). Ayrton Senna, Michael Schumacher, Mario Andretti, Rubens Barrichello, Jenson Button, (and ALL of the rest of them) went through these paths. To become a professional driver, I wouldn't race in a class that couldn't put a long list of big names beside it. On a world wide scale, even Formula Vee has produced a healthy list of successful drivers.

Although, I must admit, the car being raced should be a attractive and an advanced piece of technology. I can't comment too much on a FH, because I haven't actually seen one in person, but I had a look at a photo, and they look old - sort of like those "mini F1" go-kart hire places. Formula Fords these days are a sophisticated race car, and F3/F3000 are the same technology as F1, just scaled down a bit.

If you want to learn to drive wings and slicks, first you have to learn to drive without the wings. Steep learning curves are NOT the way to go.

Just my humble opinion...

[jamesb]

I'm sorry, but I totally disagree.
They do not look old, they look a damn sight better than FFords.
The 5000bhp 600mph thing kind of killed your arguement for me anyway.

Are you racing again this year Phil? (churchman right?)

[Jim Tom]

By totally disagreeing, are you saying that a good class:

1. Has processional, spread out, racing
2. Has badly presented and prepared cars
3. Has no television
4. Has no good drivers in the field
5. Needs no record of top quality drivers


Sorry, couldn't help myself Don't take it personally

BTW, in my opinion, Formula Fords look better. Just because they don't have wings doesnt mean they don't look good.

[JR Ewing]

I've just finished fitting a set of cardboard wings to my wheelbarrow and the standard tyre is already a slick.
This:

A looks much better than a Formula Ford
B undoubtedly offers better and more competitive racing
C offers a cost-effective way into single-seaters
D are safe as I was OK when I hit the concrete gatepost

The above seems quite in keeping with the FH brigade in my opinion!