Super tourers............Die

[GTRMagic]

They all pass the 100' test, but up close, the Morris BMW was not as schmick as you would expect, and the Newman Pug certainly isnt a picture of virtue

The 3 Mondeos are similar, with ripples in the door panels as evidence from some panel rubbing not quite hand filed back to straight. And the ex-GRM ex-Cornish Nissan is as rough as any you will see with regards to panel gaps and general appearance....

It happens when the cars dont get a proper birthday each year

[team drinkalot]

The car owners have spent a lot of money purchasing their. I think for their benefit catagories should be combined to make a decent field. I ask you. Wouldn't you prefer to watch a 30 grid field of racing vehicles then a 10 car field? The club race meetings these days run too many catagories with very small fields which does not make a spectacle. They should look at thier entries and combine and give more races.
The sports cars do this well.
I would prefer to watch a 4 way battle for last than watch someone breaking lap records and leading by half a lap.

Bring back 1 day race meetings!

[kmchow]

Racing with "Sport Sedans" have been mentioned before. So is that really a "4 door sedan" series or just a "anything can race series with coupes/hatchbacks/sedans"? If it's the former, I could live with that.

[Crash Test]

Front rear drive sequential gearboxed STourers are now elligible for Sports Sedans, as are all h-pattern gearbox cars. Basically if it is a four seat touring car styled thing, you can run in Sports Sedans. I suppose the bounds would be the Nissan 300ZXs, the Toyota Supras etc. Anything pushing too far towards the two seat type would be considered a Sports car/marque sports.

[alfasud]

Originally posted by kmchow
Racing with "Sport Sedans" have been mentioned before. So is that really a "4 door sedan" series or just a "anything can race series with coupes/hatchbacks/sedans"? If it's the former, I could live with that.

While I can understand that it would fairer to have all cars covered by very similar rules, the idea that a touring car must be a certain size and have 4 doors is something that came (and some would say 'went') with Supertouring in the 1990's. The old Group 2, Group A and the current Superproduction, Super 2000 and BTCC rules don't require cars to have 4 doors.

At various times, the following have been considered "touring cars"...... Mini Cooper S, Lotus Cortina, Twin Cam Escort, BMW 3.0CSL, Ford Capri, Alfa Romeo GTV6, BMW M3 (E30 series), Toyota Corolla (Group A).... all cars with 2 doors each. Should these cars never have be allowed to race as touring cars?

Like it or not, some of these cars might still be running in Sports Sedan classes. If we ban everything that doesn't fit the Supertouring concept of what a touring car should be, we could be back to 6 car fields again.

The fair way would be so give them some dispensations (sequential gearbox etc) so they can race against 2 litre Sports Sedans as long as they conform to ST specs. That way there is some incentive to keep these cars original.

Theres nothing to say you can't have a race within a race, or series within a series and a prize for top finishing supertourer, but if you want to keep these cars running you need sponsors, for sponsors you need spectators and spectators probably don't want to watch a field of 6 cars spaced around the track.

[RaceTime]

In your two door cars, you forgot the Falcon GT - XA, XB, XC, XD etc.

Wasn't the A9X a 2 door as well??

[alfasud]

Originally posted by RaceTime
In your two door cars, you forgot the Falcon GT - XA, XB, XC, XD etc.

Wasn't the A9X a 2 door as well??

You're quite right, and I'm sure there's someone here who will remind me about the Holden Torana XU-1. Plus there was the Valiant Charger E38 and 49 and the original Holden Monaro.

The Charger was very successful in New Zealand where it won many races including several wins in the annual 500 mile production saloon car race at Pukekohe.
http://www.valiant.org/nz.html

But the answer was mainly for kmchow who might not have been so familiar with the Aussie cars so I listed some of the better known cars from European racing. The list also missed out on the various Fiat Abarths, Jaguar XJS, Mustang, Chev Camaro and Mazda RX-7, all 2 door cars which have been raced as touring cars in Group 1, 2, and/or Group A.

Then there's the Porsche 911 that was raced as a Group 2 touring car in the 1960's until the FIA decided the rear seats needed to provide a certain amount of headroom and the 911 was moved to Group 5. In that case, I'd have to agree..... the 911 isn't really a touring/saloon car.

[RaceTime]

When you look at it the way you have just listed them, really it is only the last 5-10 years that 4 door cars have been used with any success.

And how could I forget the Chargers? Having owned one myself....hmmmmm must go hang my head in shame

[Morris 1100]

The original rules that CAMS tried to base touring cars on (Appendix J) said that all cars over 1600cc had to have 4 doors.

Of course CAMS could not resist mucking around with the rules over the years.

[racer69]

It seems that in the past few years 2 door cars that have previously been classed as Touring Cars have seemed to be reclassified as GT cars.

Nissan GTR
BMW M3

Plus ofcourse the Ford Sierra's were 2 door cars. I'm not sure why lately it seems that 4 doors are required. 2 doors are fine for me as long as they fulfill a minimum length in an outright class. The hatches are fine for the smaller capacity classes.