What to do with a Slow Driver?

[Peter Mallett]

But the logic says that if your are in a corner you are going to takr the racing line. If I'm lapping eanyone I expect them to keep going on the racing line if they're there before me then I make my own arrangements. Once it cost me a lead in a championship because the driver spun in front of me. However that is club racing and we need to encourage not dissuade people.

David whilst I take your point I don't see adopting the racing line as weaving across the track or whatever. Its just adopting the correct way through a corner.

[marcus]

very impressed with the level of civilness in here folks very refreshing to see on what could be a touchy subject.

Dave you mentioned above it could be hard to wave someone through if ya sideways or changing gears or even just hanging on for grim death , this much is true.

but again from what ive seen most backmarkers are fairly good in letting the leaders go , i guess there maybe a few who are not paying attention because they are busy trying to keep their car on the black stuff but that comes down to experience.

i dunno the answer at all because im not a racer but this sure has made for a fasinating read

[simon drabble]

Its unlikely that the driver got a signature at the end of the race and therefore will either speed up to get the signatures or decide its not for them!
However in my limited experience I have found the number of people who are slow and dangerous to be thankfully few!

[Stephen Green]

Bostic, if your one make series begins with a big R, then the guy I saw at the back of the field being lapped DID move over and let the leaders through on the occasions I saw him and I had a pretty good view from Paddock Hill Bend.

[Woolley]

Two questions to add to the discussion.

Firstly, to gain a licence you have to go through an ARDS course. Is the correct line to use in this situation covered, and if so, is that advice passed on to existing experienced drivers who preceeded the course? And is speed part of the course? In other words if a driver is slow and erratic, then shouldn't they fail the course? I ask this, because I don't know what is covered in the course, and if the above points aren't, then why not?

Secondly, what would the drivers like me, as a blue flag marshal, to do to help the situation? Obviously we keep our eye on the slower drivers particularly, and one thing we look out for is whether they appear to be aware that they are being lapped. If they are and are driving accordingly, I usually won't use the flag. This helps the driver doing the lapping by telling him that if there is a flag out, the driver in front probably is not aware of the situation. Is there anything else that would be useful if we can manage it?

[Tainan]

I'd like to assume if the blue flag is out, that the driver being lapped is aware of the situation. Seeing the blue flag gives you extra confidence that the slower car at least should be aware.

[highwayman]

I think it is all about awareness, if the driver being lapped is aware of where the faster cars are 9 times out of ten there is no problem. Although every situation is different the golden rule is to hold your line and it is down to the drivers doing the lapping to get by. In my experiance problems mostly only occur when the lapped driver is not using his mirrors.
Wolley it also helps if there is a blue flag waving wether you think the driver knows he is being overtaken or not, many a time it has happened that I tought the driver in front was well aware of where I was but didn,t.

[Stephen Green]

Welcome to Ten-Tenths Highwayman.

[Bob Pearson]

Good Morning Woolley, I think you should show the blue flag whether you think the slower driver is a ware or not. It won't do any harm if he has seen the cars behind, but it could well do harm if he hasn't. Single seater mirrors often offer very little vision, so a little flag assistance is useful, and good for the confidence of the faster drivers.

[Bostik]

For me, this is all about common sense. When helping my youngsters to start racing, it was pretty obvious that I shouldn't let them compete until they were at a point in their skill level where they were within 10% of the pace, so they wouldn't present an unnecessary additional risk to them selves or the other drivers. I would have thought it evident that if you want to race as a novice, you need to put in the effort to test and raise your game sufficienly to 'qualify' to do so, and not to try to learn that in a race series - particularly one that laps the Indy Circuit in 48 seconds!

[Bob Pearson]

Bostik,
I think it is very easy to forget just how much we know about racing and so assume everyone else, including a novice knows as much. We seem to be in similar positions, in that I also have two sons who followed me into racing and so benefitted from all I knew at their time of starting.
I think that for a rank novice to start in racing without the benefits our off-springs had is extremely difficult and shows massive determination. It is quite possible that the guy who is the subject of this thread will never get sorted without some assistance and, in my mind it falls to his fellow racers to offer that assistance.
Maybe you feel he should take professional lessons, remember "faking it" last year, perhaps he doesn't want to pay good money to be called the names that the Johnny Herbert Racing Experience save for those they decree to be below their standard.

[Bostik]

Bob,
Given that this chap is taking his racing so seriously that he had bought an expensive and relatively fast racing car, I would have thought he would have reasoned that he ideally needs to get some seat time under his belt before presenting his 'mobile chicane' to a bunch of rather hairy arsed racers who are fighting tooth and nail for a Championship.
Its not that I am unsympathetic to a novice - far from it - I was responding to what I saw, and the comments from around me at the time like - "that's ridiculous - it shouldn't be allowed!".
It begs the question - what guidelines should be provided to such a person when they are keen(brave)enough to throw themselves to the lions?
The Blue Book provides a clue with J4.4.3 which says that if a driver's lap times exceeds the third fastest car within its class by more than 10% then the CoC may exclude at their discretion. The RACMSA must have thought this through before publishing such a rule.

[Tim Falce]

Has anyone actualy gone and spoken to this driver? I still ragard myself as a novice after about 10 or 12 races, and welcome any advice or criticism from other drivers,as long as it is constructive. Maybe he would. I think a bit of diplomacy could be the word here.

[simon drabble]

I have never raced in a "one make" series so the races I have been in have a natural speed differential. However I would have thought that the CoC would have had a word with the slow driver when he picked his licence up and as i said before the lack of signature would have made a point. I guess this is one of the potential problems of National B races

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by simon drabble
.........I guess this is one of the potential problems of National B races

Er, Simon.

Unless its BRDC where everybody has achieved a certain racing ability, I suspect that all national racing in this country is run at National B.

I do of course stand to be corrected here but I don't know of one club race I've entered (and gawd there's been so many) where the minimum grade has been "A".

[garry]

Formula Saloons in National A. Although we hadn't had a problem with inexperianced drivers we did not want to wait for an accident to happen before we did something about it.

[Simon S]

Not sure this is really valid anymore, the upgrade path has been so watered down recently, just about any numpty can get an Int 'C' licence with very little actual race experiance let alone skill.

what is it now, 6 sigs from 'B' to 'A' (can be all at the same cct)

then only 3 x 'A' or 6x Club/'B' sigs to Int 'C'.

so, if somebody does a year in just about anything, they can end up with an Int 'C' from 9 races that could be as short as 10 mins each, so 90 mins = int 'C' licence?

/rant mode OFF/

[Piglet]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
Er, Simon.

Unless its BRDC where everybody has achieved a certain racing ability, I suspect that all national racing in this country is run at National B.

I do of course stand to be corrected here but I don't know of one club race I've entered (and gawd there's been so many) where the minimum grade has been "A".

Off the top of my head I think...TVR's and Caterhams are National A, some of the historic stuff is National A can't remember which though.

[Woolley]

Sorry, didn't make myself quite clear - I'd only withhold the flag deliberately when there is clear sign that the slower driver is aware of the impending lapping. At many posts you can clearly make out the driver's actions - even just looking in his mirrors. If I'm in any doubt, the flag is going out anyway.

[JohnMiller]

Euroboss is Nat A I think

[graham bahr]

in the first place i think a friendly "hows it going?" chat in the paddock is a good place to start the driver will probaly say something like "ok but i cant begin to get X corner or line right" when the experienced guy can help with out offending anyone.

secondly i would be sure to point out to the guy that he is welcome.

thirdly i would suggest that he holds whatever line he has thorough a corner and lets the faster cars find a way round him which is far safer than having someone who's in experienced weaving around potentially getting out of the way of one car only to move straight into the way of the car following the first

fourthly remember we were all novices once.

as for the COC i dont see any need for him to get involved unless the guy really is a danger, involving the COC will probably put the competitor under even more pressure and make him more liable to fall off etc because he's got half his mind on avoiding a b******g instaed of all his mind on the driving

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
I do of course stand to be corrected here but I don't know of one club race I've entered (and gawd there's been so many) where the minimum grade has been "A".

I agree. I've never entered anything over Nat B apart from one meeting and that was only because it was in Europe!

P.S. I agree with your talk of Spa in another part of ten-tenths.

[DAVID PATERSON]

I still don't think the slower car should hold the racing line when being lapped, for the reasons i detailed earlier. Surely, it makes sense if he rolls off the throttle a little and keeps to whatever side of the track he is on when caught, preferably the outside of the corner, let the quick guys take the apex, thus minimising the danger and time loss to both parties.

[carrera]

The guy in question did go quicker in the race albeit by only a second or so.

At Mallory last week there was an even larger percentage gap between the winner's best lap time and the last placed man's time in CT.

[simon drabble]

yes you can short cut to an Int C licence but you still have to get signatures at each race and to get those you have to be within a certain margin in class. I think a lot of this is common sense, if its the drivers first couple of races then expect them to be jumpy but you should know who the absolute beginner is and bear that in mind when taking them. If they are not improving then either a word to them or the race series co ordinator or help them find a better prepper!!