New Points System

[macdaddy]

Something else they obviously haven't taken into consideration is the fact that Liz is gonna have to redo her Fantasy Grid database!

[Snrub]

Well you can't improve the most if you've won pole on either days , so that's 35. (technically if you moved from 1st to 2nd and no one else passed you could) Some races have little passing. Essentially some backmarker who survived the race will gain the most positions. It should be "gained the most positions and finished better than 10th".

Another scenerio:
Driver A takes poll both days and leads the first lap. On lap 2 they get passed and slowly fall back to 6th. Attrition takes out 2nd-5th and the somewhat sluggish guy in 6th is suddenly 2nd. The first place finisher dominates the race, but doesn't get the fast lap (it happends). That's a 2 point difference.

[macdaddy]

Well you can't improve the most if you've won pole on either days.

- Colour me "stupid" and send me on my way!

Thanks, Snrub. I knew I was missing something, just couldn't figure out what!

[The Snout]

The winner gets a minimum of 32 points, 2nd gets a maximum of 31 points. So the winner will get most points.

I'd like to see some calculations of 2003 under this system and see what the outcome would have been. It might show up too any loopholes or inaccuracies in it.

I know that points to 20th seems like just awarding points for nothing, but considering say 18th gets only 3 points and winning gets 32 points, geez, it's not like 18th isn't getting peanuts which is what it deserves.

I'm prepared to give it a go first.

[corkholio]

1. Tracy - 400 (7)
2. Jourdain - 386 (2)
3. Junqueira - 383 (2)
4. Carpentier - 328 (1)
5. Bourdais - 315 (3)
6. Dominguez - 288 (1)
7. Fernandez - 280 (1)
8. Manning - 275
9. Servia - 252
10. Tagliani - 250
11. Vasser - 225
12. Haberfeld - 224
13. Hunter-Reay - 205 (1)
14. Moreno - 196
15. Monteiro - 142
16. Lavin - 118
---------------
17. Papis - 85
18. Boss - 83
19. Salles - 66
20. Salo - 65
21. Camathias - 58
22. Lemarie - 46
23. Yoong - 23
24. Gonzalez - 16
25. Herta - 10
26. Sperafico - 10
27. Diaz - 2

[Omega99]

No points system could ever be a perfect representation of the events that took place in the race. Yuo can come up with all kinds of scenarios were someone who does bad gets rewarded and someone who has bad luck gets punished. It's all part of the drama.

I'm all for the new points system, but mostly because it shows that guys at OWRS are willing to experiment to find what works and what doesn't.

[ensign14]

What the hell is is with American racing that they have to give EVERYONE points???? If you ain't gonna give the title to the guy who wins most races, points should be earned, not given free with the entry. Someone who toddles along 8 laps down but gets an attrition-aided 16th is not worthy of points. Particularly more than a huy who leads a dozen laps who then has engine go boom.

If there are to be 18 cars in CART, they should give points to the top 6. Like F1 of old. 33% of the field.

[BootsOntheSide]

Looking at the points list there (thanks Cork) it doesn't look so bad, makling for a fairly representative and close finish. However, I'm not completely sure about it. 31's not a very nice number to give out, and taking the points all the way down isn't ideal - could it be designed as an incentive for Coyne and Walker to get as many cars on the grid as possible? Also, there's not really enough credit for winning races between 31 and 27.

[Kicking-back]

I'd use the F1 points 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1.

A good balance between rewarding consistency while not dishing out points just for showing up.

And I can't be doing with all these "bonus points" - they just confuse things.

[ElScOrChO]

That point system would make sense if the points are given to drivers that are classified at the end of the race.

Example: In F1, drivers are classified when they completed 90% of the race and they get their points only if they have at least 90% of the race completed.

So someone that have a DNF after 10 laps, even if there was a huge crash at the start with 6 cars out of 20 should not get the points.

[Bizzo5000]

Why can't they just use a win-loss standing, like in baseball? Why does eveyone have to use points? You either win the race or you don't. 2nd place is the first looser.

And yes, I am kidding.
The points to P20 is interesting. How many cars DO they have lined up?

[Snrub]

2003 F1s points were fairly similar to CART's 2003 points. I would hardly say it's better. As for the old F1 distribution I always felt 10-6-4-3-2-1 turned out to be very unjust. I think it's good to give a small reward to those who finish a race in an okay position. Down to 12th has been historically fair in CART. With the smaller fields of today perhaps down to 10th is more fair.

Thanks for the calculations corkholio, that's interesting. I definately think that the new points scheme does not represent last year's performances as accurately as the new on. Does Lavin deserve >1/4th PT's points? Did PC perform better than Bourdais?

[Mags]

[i]

1st – 31
2nd – 27
3rd – 25
4th – 23
5th – 21
6th – 19
7th – 17
8th – 15
9th – 13
10th – 11
11th – 10
12th – 9
13th – 8
14th – 7
15th – 6
16th – 5
17th – 4
18th – 3
19th – 2
20th – 1 [/B]

OH JUST GREAT. JUST when I think I can look cool in front of my friends and speel off the points order... HURRUMPH.

At least OWRS thinks there will be 20 cars on the grid!!

[x_dt]

If this points system had been used in any recent year would it have made a difference to the outcome of the championship? Would Franchitti have won in 1999, for example?

[Mags]

Originally posted by x_dt
If this points system had been used in any recent year would it have made a difference to the outcome of the championship? Would Franchitti have won in 1999, for example?

HOW could you even GO there?? Who cares. Greg Moore died at that race, his BEST friend. Do you really think he CARES?? While I understand your logic, you didn't have to choose that championship battle.

[x_dt]

sorry
I didn't mean to offend anyone

[esorniloc]

This points system is more like the IRL system, and we do not want that.

I thought when the new owners got the series they would stop making crazy changes, clearly I am wrong!

[Mags]

Originally posted by esorniloc
This points system is more like the IRL system, and we do not want that.

I thought when the new owners got the series they would stop making crazy changes, clearly I am wrong!

I do NOT believe this for a moment.

I think it was to send a strong message to That Other Series that we will have 20+ cars this year.

[jjspierx]

Originally posted by esorniloc
This points system is more like the IRL system, and we do not want that.

I thought when the new owners got the series they would stop making crazy changes, clearly I am wrong!

hahah...sorry, but thats funny...crazy changes?

[jjspierx]

Originally posted by Mags
HOW could you even GO there?? Who cares. Greg Moore died at that race, his BEST friend. Do you really think he CARES?? While I understand your logic, you didn't have to choose that championship battle.

I think you're being a little touchy. While I have the utmost respect for Greg Moore, he was one of my favourite drivers, you still have to realize that a lot more happened in the year 1999 then Greg Moore's death. Just because somebody mentioned a points battle in 1999, is no reason to think he's being insensitive.

Also he mentioned who would have won the points battle that season, he mentioned nothing of "that race".

[gttouring]

up to place 10 would have been sufficient, they are trying to get a NASCAR-esque battle, when last year was tight enough- but at least this won't hurt Coyne any.
I don't like how points can get so close if you win you should be able to walk with it easy5 points over #2. but if I ran the world...

[racinthestreets]

Also he mentioned who would have won the points battle that season, he mentioned nothing of "that race".

I agree. Talking about points and the what ifs. As someone said about PT and Bruno, it would take much research to determine the outcome of past championships based on the new point system. The 1999 championship is a good question. BTW, the 1999 500 was my first trip to Fontana.

[Mags]

Originally posted by jjspierx
I think you're being a little touchy. While I have the utmost respect for Greg Moore, he was one of my favourite drivers, you still have to realize that a lot more happened in the year 1999 then Greg Moore's death. Just because somebody mentioned a points battle in 1999, is no reason to think he's being insensitive.

Also he mentioned who would have won the points battle that season, he mentioned nothing of "that race".

I KNOW how close that battle was. I understand. But I just don't think it matters in Dario's case. YES I am touchy about it. I'm sorry. And I also realise another driver lost his life at Laguna in 1999. But when you asked if Dario would have won the Championship, it just triggered me, and for that, I appologise.

[Dov]

From another forum.....

Junky: I love CART, but not its new points system

Here's the translation of an interview Junky did via e-mail to Brazilian website Grande Prêmio.

http://ultimosegundo.ig.com.br/pagin.../173932_1.html

By e-mail, Bruno told Grande Prêmio that he approved the decision that favoured OWRS in court: "I liked it. I think it is a great opportunity for CART, and I love CART." "Although I think that the best for everybody would be to have only one major open wheel league in the U.S."

Junqueira is preparing for his 4th season in CART, second in Newman-Haas, and will have as teamate again, french Sebastian Bourdais. Last year he tested an IRL car training for the Indy 500. "They are looking into the possibility of running one car at the Indy 500, but there's nothing sure for now."

Bruno did not like the changes in the pointing system. We had a a good pointing system. Changing it will make it complicated for the fans."

"Besides, winning will become less important, and worse, it may become a little bit more dangerous. Since everybody who finishes the race will be awarded with points, the teams will do anything to make ther drives finish the race. If someone crashes, the team will fix the car so it can rejoin the race, sometimes not in safe conditions, so they can get some points. "

[f1manoz]

After having a few days to think about it, I don't like it. The top-twelve system was good enough...