Is Webber deliberately hurting Jags? - Page 2

grumpy1 · 16 May 2004, 23:36 (Ref:972883)

Linda the terms of Webbers contract are up for renewal at the end of this season.

The Grumpy1

freud · 17 May 2004, 02:21 (Ref:972930)

Webber STATS

RACE QUAL. POS Finish

Aus 6 18
Mal 2 20
Bah 14 8
San 8 13
Spn 9 12

Doest look too good, eh?

Wrex · 17 May 2004, 02:42 (Ref:972938)

Quote:

Originally posted by freud
Webber STATS

RACE QUAL. POS Finish

Aus 6 18
Mal 2 20
Bah 14 8
San 8 13
Spn 9 12

Doest look too good, eh?

Hmmm, how about

Code:

RACE      QUAL. POS        Finish

Aus          6               DNF            
Mal          2               DNF
Bah          14               8
San          8               13 (mechanical)
Spn          9               12

Just a slightly different story.

Given that the car is around 6th/7th best, that should have him qualifying and racing around 11th to 14th. So race results very good, qualifying brilliant.

Snrub · 17 May 2004, 14:24 (Ref:973377)

Quote:

Originally posted by grumpy1
The last two races Webber has suffered a clutch problem at the start...
No just Fords failure to put any money behind the team so they can get some people to fix this problem.

Clutch problems are easy to fake. Maybe through practice and on the pace lap he kept engaging the clutch in a manner that would damage it so he would have clutch failure!

In all fairness Jaguar actually have a pretty competitive budget this year.

freud · 18 May 2004, 02:22 (Ref:973981)

Wrex, again we are all Chris Webber fans and its not supposed to be his fault.

Point again is that I am putting myself in shoes of Jaguar management. It might just be that Jaguar isnt doing well. That surprises me but would be another thread. I was among those who desperately wanted Jags to do well this season. And I dont want to speculate on what led to sudden demise of Jaguar. They qualified well in Sepang but things have went astray post-sepang.

Again ,with regards to Webber.. he's a great talent, no doubt about it.

fog_shadow · 18 May 2004, 04:16 (Ref:974009)

damn i've kept away from this thread for way to long.

even MS in that Jag would look ordinary. i've said it before (maybe on another forum) and i'll say it again. Mark Webber is what makes Jaguar look as good as it appears to be.

mayhem · 18 May 2004, 06:05 (Ref:974032)

Quote:

Originally posted by freud
Again, Imho Webber is 100%..the guy's on limit all the time

Then why the 'suggestive' topic title?

Quote:

Originally posted by freud

Fact of the matter is that he cannot leave Jaguar unless the team is 6 or below in the constructor's standing by British GP. I dont know what's going inside Mark's mind but if I were him, I would be liking the grass more than the tarmac

Thankfully, you're not Mark Webber.

freud · 19 May 2004, 03:50 (Ref:975073)

The title might be cynical though not suggestive by any means.

And yes, I want to see a Mark Webber driving a Williams BMW go head to head against MS/Ferrari in 2005.

ozrevhead · 19 May 2004, 06:32 (Ref:975126)

no i doubt that very much - mark is a racer!

anyrate that jag is a bucket of bolts at best!
i hope he gets that drive atWilliams

grumpy1 · 20 May 2004, 04:20 (Ref:976085)

Jag have a competitive budget.If your in F3 it is but not F1.The clutch problems that have plagued the jag have been narrowed down to the way the plate is assembled.They have trilled a new type of plate with heaps of test starts without a problem so they are optimistick about this weekend.

The Grumpy1

Mr V · 2 Jun 2004, 09:38 (Ref:991244)

Jaguar are only 2 points behind the McLarens, with a couple of races to go to the half way point of the season. A couple of good results for Mark (or Klien, wouldn't that be ironic) and Mark might find himself in the Jag again next season.

Logrence · 2 Jun 2004, 10:01 (Ref:991262)

Why are people having a go at freud for asking a valid question?

If I was Webber, and I wanted to race at Williams, this seems to be the best way to do so without causing Williams to spend millions of dollars buying me out of a race deal with Jag.

deeks6 · 2 Jun 2004, 13:21 (Ref:991488)

Webber = Dogged and Fast

Jaguar = Dog and Farce

freud · 2 Jun 2004, 22:50 (Ref:992083)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr V
Jaguar are only 2 points behind the McLarens, with a couple of races to go to the half way point of the season. A couple of good results for Mark (or Klien, wouldn't that be ironic) and Mark might find himself in the Jag again next season.

FW doesnt like to spend... though if Ralf leaves, imho, Williams can potentially go for buying Webber out of his contract with Jaguar. If Ralf stays, then its a different scenario.

And Logrence..

Kicking-back · 2 Jun 2004, 23:02 (Ref:992088)

Ralf won't be staying at Williams.

Frank withdrew the contract offer last November - and Ralf has done nothing to justify a new one.

krt917 · 3 Jun 2004, 11:20 (Ref:992542)

Quote:

Originally posted by Logrence
Why are people having a go at freud for asking a valid question?

Good point!

Quote:

Originally posted by Logrence
If I was Webber, and I wanted to race at Williams, this seems to be the best way to do so without causing Williams to spend millions of dollars buying me out of a race deal with Jag.

But it sends out the wrong messages. He has a moral obligation to do his best, at very least, or doesn't that matter? Also, just suppose he fluked in to 6th (or Klien did) and he did end up at Jaguar next year (unlikely, I reckon) - not very morale boosting for your team is it?

I think Webber is a racer, so I don't think he's sandbagging. I don't think Jaguar have given him a car quick enough to require sandbagging!

Logrence · 3 Jun 2004, 13:01 (Ref:992688)

All those drivers are completely selfish - they do what they do because they want to feel the pleasure of winning and all the adulation that comes with it.

Let's be honest - being an F1 driver isn't about saving the world. Moral duties don't come into it - Mark wants what is best for Mark - if at the time that involves doing what's best for Jaguar then he'll do it. At the moment, I don't think it does, though.

It's an interesting question.

krt917 · 3 Jun 2004, 14:41 (Ref:992791)

Quote:

Originally posted by Logrence
All those drivers are completely selfish - they do what they do because they want to feel the pleasure of winning and all the adulation that comes with it.

Let's be honest - being an F1 driver isn't about saving the world. Moral duties don't come into it - Mark wants what is best for Mark - if at the time that involves doing what's best for Jaguar then he'll do it. At the moment, I don't think it does, though.

Actually, I do think moral obligation comes into sport and the pleasure of winning (like winning without cheating for example), but I am aware that others don't always agree with that.

Whatever, I agree that Webber isn't deliberately hurting Jaguar at the moment.

Logrence · 3 Jun 2004, 17:49 (Ref:992959)

I agree the drivers have a moral obligation to do certain things - but I think the whole mentality that drives (hey hey) these guys and makes them quick is selfishness and not moral obligation.

It was selfishness that made Schumacher drive into Villeneuve, and selfishness that's behind a million and one moves that are ultimately for money.

The point I was making though, was that I think Webber would hurt Jaguar to get what he wants...what he wants though is anyone's guess.

dcp2685 · 3 Jun 2004, 18:15 (Ref:992983)

Quote:

Originally posted by Logrence
I agree the drivers have a moral obligation to do certain things - but I think the whole mentality that drives (hey hey) these guys and makes them quick is selfishness and not moral obligation.

It was selfishness that made Schumacher drive into Villeneuve, and selfishness that's behind a million and one moves that are ultimately for money.

The point I was making though, was that I think Webber would hurt Jaguar to get what he wants...what he wants though is anyone's guess.

What he wants is to have a competitive car with a chance for winning races. That's what every F1 driver wants. I don't think it's as much selfishness as much as it is having that competitive spirit. He wants to compete for wins, moving into a williams will help him meet that goal. There is no way he can do that with Jaguar. Especially when Ford doesn't want to up the $$$ to help it become competitive. Add the factor of losing the HSBC sponsor... If he doesn't move to a top team and stays with Jaguar, i fear he'll be out of F1 when Jaguar goes belly up.

grumpy1 · 3 Jun 2004, 21:31 (Ref:993240)

Given this news artical you make your own minds up whether this is smoke and mirrors.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,3-2004250594,00.html
On the other hand given the times from Silverston in testing does anyone have any doubts about Mark Webber and his commitment.

krt917 · 4 Jun 2004, 10:18 (Ref:993688)

Quote:

Originally posted by Logrence
I agree the drivers have a moral obligation to do certain things - but I think the whole mentality that drives (hey hey) these guys and makes them quick is selfishness and not moral obligation.

It was selfishness that made Schumacher drive into Villeneuve, and selfishness that's behind a million and one moves that are ultimately for money.

The point I was making though, was that I think Webber would hurt Jaguar to get what he wants...what he wants though is anyone's guess.

Ah, I see. Apologies, I thought you were advocating such an approach. I'm sure different drivers would react differently given different situations. For example, I don't think that DC would sandbag to get a better drive, though others might.

I think Webber would hurt Jaguar to get want he wants, but not necessarily in that way. He might leave them and be a pain in negotiating, but I don't think he'd do anything less than his best in the races, because:
a) He doesn't know what opportunities for a good result may arise and, I'm sure having got to F1, he wouldn't want to miss them.
b) It might not work.
c) It could backfire and do more harm to his career than good in terms of his reputation.

z2252314 · 4 Jun 2004, 13:07 (Ref:993850)

Quote:

Originally posted by freud
Wrex, again we are all Chris Webber fans and its not supposed to be his fault.

Freud, this is not an NBA forum....and by the way, it is his fault they arent playing Detroit this Sunday!

freud · 4 Jun 2004, 13:38 (Ref:993874)

Ah.. that was a freudian slip.. sorry about that. And yes although its off-topic Sacramento and C. Webber have been awful in this year's play-offs.

And as for Mark Webber, Imho, he'll get into williams one way or another. He's just too good a talent to be ignored.

fog_shadow · 4 Jun 2004, 13:48 (Ref:993889)

Webber and JV. that'd be the dream team of F1 maybe if i'm good and i eat all my veggies, it may happen, JPM and KR would be another dream team. but MW abd JV almost makes me drool.

i got a good feeling about williams if they get these 2, really good feeling.

shadow

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