Renault to Quit F1?

[grumpy1]

JAG the Scuduria Ferrari ALM's team is not factory backed?

The Grumpy1

[JAG]

Originally posted by grumpy1
JAG the Scuduria Ferrari ALM's team is not factory backed?

The Grumpy1

What Scuderia Ferrari team?

There's the RISI 360s?

Last years Prodrive 550's where Prodrive funded.

Ferrari, like Porsche, after a number of years lobbying from potential customers set up a dpt. to design and build customer chassis. These cars are sold to teams who run them with their own budget, such as JMB, RISI etc.

The cars developed so far are the 360GTC and 575GTC.

The Maserati MC12 is the only works run car from the Ferrari stable.

I also come back to the point that an F1 program cost far, far more than any other formula. For example Audi spent around £50m on the R8 program over a 4 year period. F1 costs £100m+ a year. So, as Jaguar has discovered, you have to be winning to get value for money. Remember the predicted sea of Green at Silverstone. Didn't happen.

The manufactuer boom for F1 is over, and manufactuers are reavaluating the value of entereing F1 as opposed to other formulas.

[GP Racer]

It would be foolhardy for Renault to leave now.

With both Williams and McLaren on the ropes, they should be a shoo-in for #2 manufacturer this year. And who knows, if the impossible happens, and Ferrari falters next year,(impossible, I know!) they may just be able to pull off the win.

[JohnSSC]

Why are ultimatums always being given to good teams?? Couldn't someone give Minardi or Jordan two years to either win the WCC/WDC or stop the torture?

I can see the threads now after Minardi demolishes the field: "What if Zsolt took a year off - who would be his competition??"

[Omega99]

It'd be a shame for Renault to leave, but yeah, I can see that WRC makes a lot of sense. Hopefully they do both... As for just being an engine supplier, Renault's engines have been a little underpowered, albeit reliable, but their chasis has been superb! I'd hate to lose one of the best and most beautiful cars on the curcuit.

[mountainstar]

I heard talk earlier this year that the program MIGHT roll over to nissan which might make sense.

[Peter Mallett]

Before I got to this post I was going to mention Nissan. Renault owned, but Japanese brand awareness.

Just another possible example of the "eastward" looking trend.

That's if there is any substance to the story at all. We only have Autosport's opinion on how much money Renault is willing to spend.

[Led ZeppF1]

Autosport, in their latest reports in website, didn't mention that its mean Renault will quit F1.

http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?s=8&id=27755

[climb]

The mqain problem is, in two years there'll be a new big boss at Renault. He's renamedly contrary to invest in racing as a commercial source: "somebody still has to show me that a race win makes me sell one more car"
This is the real concern; and the reason why the current establishment has deeply invested into long term projects (like GP2 and Renault weekend), just to limitate the action of the new top manager approach.

[Super Tourer]

Who knows if they would pull out, but it goes to show a manufacturer pull out is potentially only a board meeting away.

Max Mosely has often commented that F1 is over reliant on car makers whose core business is to shift volume cars, not race in F1 and that as a result is beholden to whatever marketing strategy or policy is decided upon.

It's also worth mentioning that (IIRC) Mercedes is due a new CEO shortly.

[BootsOntheSide]

They'd be mad to go now, the whole project ahs gathered momentum this year, and they look set for 2nd in the Constructors Championship if they keep it up. A WRC program is much mroe cost-effective form a marketing potential, true, but they won't have to take much out of the F1 effort to run it (sponsorship could make that up anyway).

I'd be very surprised if this proves to be anything mroe than a wild rumour.

[Andrew2001]

Crazy news. Although it would mean one team that McLAren and Williams dont have to beat anymore lol.

[N I Tram]

Entering WRC seems to amke sense - quitting F1 to allow for it doesn't, especially as WRC would cost a fraction.

One other side to this is that winning in WRC is giving Citroena dn Peugeot better publicity than losing in F1 would, even though so many companies have scaled back from other championships to focus on F1. Did Toyota and Ford make a big mistake by throwing money and manpower at F1?

[Glen]

(From a recent thread…)

2003 manufacturer team budgets. (figures from F1 Business)

Renault.
Total budget $257M
Renault input - $70M cash - $90M non cash
% of total budget funded by manufacturer -62%
Tobacco input - $40M – as a % of total budget – 15%

Four more years in F1 is a Billion Dollars. Unless F1 gets truly serious about cost cutting it won't just be Renault on it's way out, and there won't be any F1 left.

[Kicking-back]

Good point Glen.

That's why I support the current proposals for 2006-8 to improve things.

Problem is, whenever such things are suggested people on here scream about how there's no need to cut costs and how it "won't be F1 anymore."

You can't win.

[N I Tram]

People who see no need to reduce costs need to wake up and smell the Red Bull. Not only is the racing less exciting when technology is too high, the costs are increasingly at a level which can't be sustained, even by big car companies. No manufacturer will want to stay involved if they are losing to 4 or 5 direct rivals anyway.

[Glen]

You could cut spend to 40% of current levels and F1 would still be far and away the most expensive and glamorous form of motorsport. Problem is, all if the proposed methods to reduce costs may actually have the opposite effect, because more expensive methods will be developed to do the same thing.

[Gt_R]

Sometimes i do doubt that F1 brings increased recognition and increased sales to Renault/Toyota/Honda as much as WRC did for Subaru/Mitsubishi - at least not in anyway the difference in investment is required for the 2 series.

[Marcel ten Caat]

Seriously doubt they'll leave soon.

Why start the Renault Drivers Development programme (a few years ago) and why announce a Renault Super Racing Weekend (FR 1600, FR 2000, World Series by Renault (and GP2)) to get your drivers into F1 if you already know you're out of F1 in a few years.

They'll probably have some kind of raceteam running their cars and supply them with factory backing (and money).
Just like Prodrive does for Subaru (and Ferrari for LM), Ralliart did for Mitsubishi (before Mitsu took over) and MSD did for Hyundai.

For selling cars WRC seems to be better...as those cars are pretty much similar to the cars we see/use on the public roads.

[touringlegend]

It's not to the same extent, but the same principal applies - for example take the 90's BTCC, there were 10 manufacturers at one point, but one by one they got disillusioned with high costs and no results - therefore they withdrew. At the end the BTCC was down to 3 works teams, the point is that if something isn't done about F1 costs the exact same thing will happen to F1..

In saying that though, I have heard (from a Toyota quote I believe) that they couldn't afford not to compete in F1.


BTW - IIRC it's believed the new "Logan" model would be used for a Renault WRC programme.

[Kicking-back]

The fears about manufacturers are exactly why it's important teams like Minardi and Jordan remain in F1.

[JAG]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
The fears about manufacturers are exactly why it's important teams like Minardi and Jordan remain in F1.

Exactly right.

Prior to the mid 90s manufactuers entered a variety of series, whether it be F1, LM, WRC, BTCC/DTM etc. With 3-4 manufactuers in each series, wins could be spread out and each one got a shot in the limelight.

However with F1 booming in the mid 90s Toyota, BMW etc. dropped there LM, WRC, BTCC etc. programs believing F1 would provide all of their marketing goals from motorsport.

When entering F1 they all think they can win, but reallity soons stikes. As has been said, not only do manufactuers have to deal with the fact they are being beaten week after week by major rivals, they are spending £100's millions for the pleasure.

By contrast Audi, for an outlay of £50m have 3 Le Mans wins and very important US ALMS title wins, plus a fleet of customer cars winning for them. Same goes for Peugeot in the WRC.

IMO, it is better for all of motorsport if 2 or 3 manufactuers now leave F1 and enter other series.

Privateers can prosper in F1, and the manufactuers can invest some of their cash, expertise etc. in other series.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Super Tourer
Who knows if they would pull out, but it goes to show a manufacturer pull out is potentially only a board meeting away.

When is the next meeting at Browns Lane, *cough*, Detroit?

[Super Tourer]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
When is the next meeting at Browns Lane, *cough*, Detroit?

After the HSBC meeting no doubt. To add insult to injury, I've read that all that Monaco nonsense was for essentially for 'free' as part of a dual promotion.

I call that a good days work, two cars out before the race is barely warm, and upset your major sponsor with the tacky marketing they have to endure in front of their VIP guests.

Well done...

You couldn't make it up.

[JohnSSC]

Every Sunday when I get up at 7 a.m. to watch a race I Thank God in the Strongest Personal Terms for providing me with the competitive action that Minardow and Jordan provide. I get my coffee and already the juices are flowing as I excitedly clatter about Bag End waiting for the race to start!

God! The Action! The Drama! Watching those Jordans wobble like a granny who has drunk too much sherry enter a corner under braking!!! The Sheer excitement of trying to identify which Minardow has just crapped out or better yet, been overtaken by even the Saubers and the mighty Toyotas!!!!

My word is that Dolt Slowgartner's helmet poking up out of the cloud of dust in the gravel trap??? Is that Bruni that every driver in the field is indicating they think is "Number One" by holding up one finger as they go by???

Yes indeedy-do this American is ready to rumble at the very thought of seeing the proud liveries of the Jordan and Minardow soldier by in a very sporting fashion! No team orders here! (Does: "Don't hit anyone else and stay out of everyone's way" count as Team Orders??).

I am personally annoyed at having to watch lap after lap of Ferraris and Wiliams' and Renaults and McLarens and BARs (finally) turning competitive lap times and fighting for points when the Real Action is in the back with the Jordans looking for all the world like they are having some sort of Epipleptic Fit and the Minardows doing their best to resemble the basic activity level of someone who has taken too many quaaludes.

Yes sir!