Barrichello to BAR and Massa to Ferrari - Page 2

cos · 31 Jul 2005, 10:53 (Ref:1368117)

Quote:

Originally Posted by naughtymutt

What is it with people thinking they can choose not to honour a contract... if you where a sponser would you touch button at the moment.

Speaking of contracts, is everyone forgetting that Barrichello has a Ferrari contract through to 2006?

Valve Bounce · 31 Jul 2005, 11:02 (Ref:1368120)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

If Ferrari are signing Massa it will be initially as #2 to Michael, and in the long term proabbly #2 to a big name driver, perhaps Kimi or Jenson, unless he shows anything astonishing alongside Michael. Long-term they have always been grooming him for this.

You are suggesting that Ferrari would replace a seven times World Champion with a Schabby Schmuck who has not even won a single race, and you label him as a big name? You really need a reality check!! The only thing that is big about the Bunsen is his head.

BSchneiderFan · 31 Jul 2005, 11:18 (Ref:1368130)

Just seen Sir Frank Williams interviewed on TV; apart from thinking that he looks terrible, I notice that he is adamant about Button coming to Williams next year. I don't think he's messing around. And his main argument has a lot of force; you sign a contract and you're honour-bound to keep to it.

Jaxs · 31 Jul 2005, 14:02 (Ref:1368237)

Massa, who is managed by Nicolas Todt, the son of Ferrari's sporting director Jean, has long been linked to a move back to Ferrari where he drove as test driver in the 2003,

**touringlegend** · 31 Jul 2005, 14:30 (Ref:1368261)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Just seen Sir Frank Williams interviewed on TV; apart from thinking that he looks terrible, I notice that he is adamant about Button coming to Williams next year. I don't think he's messing around. And his main argument has a lot of force; you sign a contract and you're honour-bound to keep to it.

I can't remember the last time I saw SFW so certain, even when asked about an exchange for Honda engines he made it plainly clear he wasn't interested.

Inigo Montoya · 31 Jul 2005, 14:35 (Ref:1368266)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

You are suggesting that Ferrari would replace a seven times World Champion with a Schabby Schmuck who has not even won a single race, and you label him as a big name? You really need a reality check!! The only thing that is big about the Bunsen is his head.

Not sure what Schabby Schmuck means, but I don't think its a complement.... Jenson hasn't really had the car to win, so I think this is unfair.

Silk Cut Jaguar · 31 Jul 2005, 14:39 (Ref:1368268)

I don't think it'd be unjust if Button was left without a seat next year.

He needs to stop changing his mind, or at least stop signing contracts and then changing it.

JeremySmith · 31 Jul 2005, 14:40 (Ref:1368270)

I think that Rubens will regret a move to BAR-Honda, he will come to realise that life at Ferrari was really not that bad at all.

Knowlesy · 31 Jul 2005, 14:46 (Ref:1368276)

It'd be great for Rubens to be team leader at BAR. I think he'd excel in that kind of role.

Massa at Ferrari sounds odd, but it would be an exciting change and very interesting. It'd just be nice to see a different driver at Ferrari IMO.

Silk Cut Jaguar · 31 Jul 2005, 14:48 (Ref:1368278)

Massa at Ferrari isn't that strange, it's been on the cards for a few years now. Of course, being managed by a Todt no doubt helps his chances (and pay packet) considerably.

Knowlesy · 31 Jul 2005, 14:52 (Ref:1368283)

I know it's been on the cards, but it still seems a strange thought. It's hard to picture Felipe on the grid, in a Ferrari, teamed with TGF. More so, Rubens in a non-ferrari!

He has, of course, been at Ferrari before as a tester.....

BootsOntheSide · 31 Jul 2005, 14:55 (Ref:1368288)

It's a good job Frank Williams is a better judge of driver ability than some here. None of Rosberg, Mansell, Hill and Jacques had won a race when they joined Williams. The fact that you've chosen to bring this up in response to a side-comment in an irrelevent thread when there's already a lengthy one elsewhere shows how obsessed you are.

JeremySmith · 31 Jul 2005, 15:00 (Ref:1368291)

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowlesy

I know it's been on the cards, but it still seems a strange thought. It's hard to picture Felipe on the grid, in a Ferrari, teamed with TGF. More so, Rubens in a non-ferrari!

He has, of course, been at Ferrari before as a tester.....

You see Knowlesy, I feel the same way about Fellipe at Ferrari, he does not appear to be "that special" to me. The interesting point here in IMHO is that next year with the arrival of V8 power who knows what any of the cars will be like? anyway what do you guys think?

Knowlesy · 31 Jul 2005, 15:05 (Ref:1368294)

I think massa is quick, but not special. That's not to say he can't develop but I can't see him being on a level with MS/Kimi/JPM/Button/Alonso/Rubens etc.....

He's probably at Fisis level.......which is to say slightly above average. Does ferrari want that?

Gt_R · 31 Jul 2005, 15:50 (Ref:1368320)

Indeed. Although i really can't rate FM accurately, so far i've yet to see Massa in the same league as Button & JPM, let alone Kimi & Alonso. To put him in a Ferrari seat would be a gamble, and a strange on at that.

At least RB was a underrated and good driver in the days prior to being signed a Ferrari driver... Massa isn't really on that level yet.

Or does Ferrari see things differently?

mike bt · 31 Jul 2005, 16:46 (Ref:1368340)

It would seem fairly certain now that Barichello has signed for BAR, which IMO means that BAR expect to lose Button. If they don't lose him, then it surely means that Sato is on the way out...... which is surprising since he's Honda's boy. So if they're serious about keeping Jenson they must have considered dispensing with Sato's services. In which case does that mean that AD has a chence of the BAR seat if BAR don't manage to retain JB?

maximus · 31 Jul 2005, 16:56 (Ref:1368344)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

You are suggesting that Ferrari would replace a seven times World Champion with a Schabby Schmuck who has not even won a single race, and you label him as a big name? You really need a reality check!! The only thing that is big about the Bunsen is his head.

He isn't big headed at all judging by a recent interview I've read. Next to Kimi (tied down at Mclaren) and Alonso (similar factor applies here) who else is there? Besides Ferrari went for Rubens and Irvine before and they hadn't won a race either.

Knowlesy · 31 Jul 2005, 17:07 (Ref:1368348)

Just ignore VB.

He has a chronic disease: completely blind to any good that Jenson does combined with a tedious use of the name 'Bunsen'.

thejester · 31 Jul 2005, 23:13 (Ref:1368615)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I think that Rubens will regret a move to BAR-Honda, he will come to realise that life at Ferrari was really not that bad at all.

I disagree. I think at this stage in his career a team leader role with a team that is pushing to get to the top will be infinitely more satisfying than playing bat boy for a team struggling to stay there. I'd like to see Rubens win for BAR, and pass Ferraris on the way!

With regards his contract, I would hope that after his years of service Ferrari would feel they owe him at least a straightforward get-out for a not-too-outrageous transfer fee. Forcing him to remain for 1 more year would be counterproductive. Anyway, if the Massa story is true, sounds like they've worked it out.

DKGandBH · 31 Jul 2005, 23:18 (Ref:1368619)

At Ferrari Rubens would have a good chance at comming 2nd...
Anywhere else he would have a chance (albeit probably smaller) at winning the title.

DKGandBH

JeremySmith · 31 Jul 2005, 23:34 (Ref:1368635)

I like Rubens a lot I think he is a really nice person and very good at his job. I am not sure it's the right move but time will tell I suppose, and of course I wish him tons of luck he deserves many wins after playing second fiddle at Ferrari for so long.

Valve Bounce · 1 Aug 2005, 04:46 (Ref:1368720)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

Not sure what Schabby Schmuck means, but I don't think its a complement.... Jenson hasn't really had the car to win, so I think this is unfair.

What?? you think it is fair to compare him as a great driver to SchM who is a 7 times World Champion?

Valve Bounce · 1 Aug 2005, 04:53 (Ref:1368721)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

It's a good job Frank Williams is a better judge of driver ability than some here. None of Rosberg, Mansell, Hill and Jacques had won a race when they joined Williams. The fact that you've chosen to bring this up in response to a side-comment in an irrelevent thread when there's already a lengthy one elsewhere shows how obsessed you are.

I think it was you who sugegsted replacing SchM (a 7 times WDC) with Jenson, a big name driver. I was just responding how stupid that sounded.

Valve Bounce · 1 Aug 2005, 04:57 (Ref:1368724)

Quote:

Originally Posted by maximus

He isn't big headed at all judging by a recent interview I've read. Next to Kimi (tied down at Mclaren) and Alonso (similar factor applies here) who else is there? Besides Ferrari went for Rubens and Irvine before and they hadn't won a race either.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/4670607.stm

Raglanparade · 1 Aug 2005, 05:48 (Ref:1368731)

Anyone seen f1 Central ???

There is a story on there speculating that Ferrari might ask Red-Bull for DC's services for a year. This would free up Red Bulls 3 into 2 dillemma, and increase the business relationship between Red Bull and Ferrari. Ferrari might also offer Red Bull a discount on engines for Coulthards services..

Who would be a safer bet ? Massa whos never won a race, or DC who has won races before and is a steady accumilator of points ? I think i would choose the latter.

As for Massa. He could still move to Ferrari. Although we have been saying Michael is going to retire for years, he isnt getting any younger, and next season he will be 37. Do you think maybe Massa will go back to being a Ferrari tester with the promise of either MS or DC's seat for 2007 ? Theres a thought !

As for BMW and Villeneauve, I really can't see it happening. As much as i love JV, i think BMW are more likely to pay him out his contract them let him race. Heidfeld comes across from Williams with BMW... the second seat could still be Massa's or anyone elses.

Another interesting thought is this. What if Ferrari acquire DC and Massa's services, but swap drivers for 2006. DC goes to Ferrari, Massa to Red Bull (in tune with the young image) with a Ferrari alliance, and either Liuzzi or Klien are sent packing to BMW with Heidfeld ?? (that is not out of the relms of possibility either!).

Im pretty sure Button will stay put at BAR, if he doesnt want to be at Williams, he wont perform properly. Webber and Davidson i feel is the most likely combination there.

As for Takuma Sato. Anyone who knows anything about Japanese culture and business knows that employees are like family to a company. When you join a company in Japan it is usually a lifetime agreement, and swapping companies is not as common as in American or Australian culture. Sato is Honda's boy, and unless they can find another Honda powered seat for him in another category, they may just keep him. Or will Honda look at Toyota and realise they can get better results from two drivers that arent of Japanese decent !

That is enough speculation from me... most of the time my mates reckon i turn out to be 50% right, and 50% wrong with my calls.. only time will tell.

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