Super A's chassis woes & 2004(?) Sauber - Page 2

Javi · 23 Nov 2005, 12:34 (Ref:1468262)

At least for the benetton and ligier, and if my memory still works, FIA inspected both chassis and found "no common parts", well, that´s what they said...

kipper · 23 Nov 2005, 13:15 (Ref:1468309)

I presume that the reason why Super Aguri are so keen to purchase four year old Arrows is because if they can finish in the top 10, they will be entitled to significant amounts of money for travel, TV, etc. With Toro Rosso running an updated Minardi with a detuned V10, it might be possible for a team with an up to date Honda engine to finish ahead of them and claim the money for a more comprehensive assault on 2007.

Super Tourer · 23 Nov 2005, 13:33 (Ref:1468322)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kipper

I presume that the reason why Super Aguri are so keen to purchase four year old Arrows is because if they can finish in the top 10, they will be entitled to significant amounts of money for travel, TV, etc. With Toro Rosso running an updated Minardi with a detuned V10, it might be possible for a team with an up to date Honda engine to finish ahead of them and claim the money for a more comprehensive assault on 2007.

It depends on the equivalency, there are some concerns amongst the manufacturers that (initially anyway) restricted V10's may be more competive than V8's and that they have effectively been sold a 'pup' as far as the regs go.

Allowing detuned V10's was a way of keeping Minardi (in it's former guise) in F1 and removing the obstacle of it having to secure a V8 deal and develop a bespoke car. Now of course, Minardi has been bought by a multi billion pound organisation so the former doesn't really apply to their new circumstances.

I would imagine that should it produce a car of some sort, Aguri will look at running restricted Honda V10's, as opposed to V8's - there will be a plentifull supply without impinging on Honda's main engine programme, as an independent (non-manufacturer) team they will be entitled to run V10's, plus of course it could provide a useful ongoing benchmark for Honda to measure their V8 by.

BSchneiderFan · 23 Nov 2005, 14:32 (Ref:1468381)

Am I right in thinking, though, that Super Aguri could use old BAR chassis if all the other teams agreed?

mike_slh · 23 Nov 2005, 14:43 (Ref:1468386)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Am I right in thinking, though, that Super Aguri could use old BAR chassis if all the other teams agreed?

Thats what i was thinking,surely they could borrow the plans to the 2004 or 2005 car, it has to be better than the Arrows

BSchneiderFan · 23 Nov 2005, 14:51 (Ref:1468393)

Yes, but unanimity might be the stumbling block.

**chunterer** · 24 Nov 2005, 14:12 (Ref:1469322)

Joke or not, running converted 5 year old chassis would be a total waste of time, unless it would be used as buying themselves time to get hold of BAR's?

Few guys have already mentioned the Ferrari/Sauber and Benetton/Ligier links- the cars were pretty much the same apart from some different wings or stuff underneath i suspect - surely that would be the way for Super A to do it as well?

Build a car just like the BAR and then put different sidepods and winglets on it!!

After all who was it that said if you lined all the chassis up in a row painted the same colour - it would be remarkably difficult to tell them all apart?!

Marbot · 24 Nov 2005, 14:26 (Ref:1469329)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Few guys have already mentioned the Ferrari/Sauber and Benetton/Ligier links- the cars were pretty much the same apart from some different wings or stuff underneath i suspect - surely that would be the way for Super A to do it as well?

Build a car just like the BAR and then put different sidepods and winglets on it!!

None of the parts can be interchangable.The Benetton/Ligier,Ferrari/Sauber/Toyota had no common parts.

**chunterer** · 24 Nov 2005, 14:33 (Ref:1469333)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

None of the parts can be interchangable.The Benetton/Ligier,Ferrari/Sauber/Toyota had no common parts.

But you could use other parts for same purpose? You have to admit the Ligier and Sauber went pretty well for lookalikes!!

Nismo · 24 Nov 2005, 20:38 (Ref:1469609)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

None of the parts can be interchangable.The Benetton/Ligier,Ferrari/Sauber/Toyota had no common parts.

the benetton and ligier were almost identical...im sure theere were lots of common parts

anyone got any pics???

Marbot · 25 Nov 2005, 01:25 (Ref:1469787)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nismo

the benetton and ligier were almost identical...im sure theere were lots of common parts

anyone got any pics???

The FIA checked and found that there were no common parts.Had there been i'm sure that either one or both cars would have been excluded from the championship.

SpawnyWhippet · 25 Nov 2005, 02:13 (Ref:1469804)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

The FIA checked and found that there were no common parts.Had there been i'm sure that either one or both cars would have been excluded from the championship.

Did they move the screw holes that hold the bodywork panels on?

Nismo · 24 Nov 2005, 20:44 (Ref:1469619)

http://b.f1-facts.com/ul/a/498

http://b.f1-facts.com/ul/a/1366

Hazard · 24 Nov 2005, 20:46 (Ref:1469624)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nismo

http://b.f1-facts.com/ul/a/498

http://b.f1-facts.com/ul/a/1366

I see no similarities. One's designed in completely the different direction to the other

**ghinzani** · 24 Nov 2005, 22:01 (Ref:1469672)

As Jordan are nominally gone could they not buy the Jordans from Midland?

I say get some Osella FA1G's myself!

Valker · 24 Nov 2005, 22:04 (Ref:1469676)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghinzani

As Jordan are nominally gone could they not buy the Jordans from Midland?

If they could, they could also buy BARs from Honda.

Dutton · 25 Nov 2005, 01:31 (Ref:1469789)

With situations like that a lot of effort would have been made to ensure that things were different enough to satisfy the regulations.

It makes me wonder, though, what if, unlikely as it may be, two teams, by chance, happened to design identical cars?

**ghinzani** · 26 Nov 2005, 20:14 (Ref:1470899)

I cant see why Honda/Super Aguri have'nt gone back to Dallara. After all they built the test mule that Verstappen tested back in 00 (I think) under the auspices of the late Harvey Postelthwaite. If Dallara have even more recent drawings from the work they did for Midland then surely they should be speaking with Dallara? Or Dallara should be banging down Hondas door!

Kicking-back · 26 Nov 2005, 20:25 (Ref:1470904)

Dallara is under contract with Midland to do work for them, so they can't do the Aguri stuff

**ghinzani** · 26 Nov 2005, 20:40 (Ref:1470909)

Oh I thought they got dumped by Midland in favour of using Jordan facilities. My mistake.

Kicking-back · 26 Nov 2005, 20:41 (Ref:1470910)

Midland are building the cars at the Jordan factory, but they still have Dallara as design consultants

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