Getting experience with a Reynard 883

[SpawnyWhippet]

They didn't want to see my Int C license either, just any bit of paper that showed I knew which pedal does what.

[tristancliffe]

Okay, I'll rephrase that - I tried the tracks people mentioned, but the ones a sensible distance from me, i.e. didn't need 6 hours of driving there, 6 hours of driving back and some driving in the middle, want a race licence to test. I'd do that distance for a race meeting, but not for a test.

[driftwood]

If u went there for the day drove down the day before it would be worth it especially as u and yr kinsmen dont have a licence

it would be worth it for u all to get track time
its like beggers cant be choosers
wots 6 hrs in a car amongst friends

[tristancliffe]

I have four options

1. Write that I'll now consider it and forget about it really.
2. Write that I'll now consider it, and actually consider it
3. Write that I won't consider it and actually think about it
4. Write that I won't consider it and really don't.

I think 2 is the most likely to be honest.

[SpawnyWhippet]

You've had the benefit of advice from many combined years of motorsport experience. Either take it, or don't; not much else to add here...

[driftwood]

2 more options
1 get a woman settle down marry and have kids
2 go to pub get slaughtered become an acloholic

either way u will not be driving a race car unless u make some effort
the 2 commenst above can be done bt strolling down the high street
to drive the race car you have to travel or pay the £400 get ARDS test all day at Snet for 200 quid and save 6 hr drives
to me its a no brainer but the im me not 3 guys with a race car but still its a no brainer
now wheer are the wife and kids going with my beers?

[Neil1982]

Six hours drive too much to hone your driving skills? How are you going to cope with an all night engine change in an open paddock when it is pi**ing down in order to get out on Sunday after a blow up on Saturday?

Give up wanting to be a race car driver and take up tiddly winks now otherwise you are going to be very stressed and very disappointed at some point in the future. Be assured motor racing teaches you the highs and lows like nothing else and it is those who can deal with the adversity that make champions. Also remember there is no such thing as cheap motor sport just different degress of expensive!

[skmanuk]

If it's going to take you 6 hours to get to Llandow you might want to consider whether "racing" is the right hobby!

Not that I would encourage breaking the speed limit of course.

[driftwood]

i remember my father going off to race at nurburing hockenheim zandvoort zolder oestriechring in the early to mid 90`s
10-15 hrs drive to get there plus ferry crossing
he said it was just part of racing and having done all the UK tracks even upto Ingliston 3 times and once to Mondello once yr on the road your moving

next year its EEc for my racing might even get to estoril this year in Nov if the car is ready

[Lola]

A few years back when racing my Lola 642 we had a meeting at Lydden Hill. After a 5 1/2 hour trip one friday afternoon from the west midlands we opened up the trailer to find a rear rocker had colapsed. Rather than calling it a day we removed it , drove back to the west mids, had an all nighter to make a new one and then drove back and fitted it by 8.00am. We even painted it!
Trust me you will have more lows than highs in motorsport.....but the highs more than make up for it.

[mrsweety]

Originally Posted by skmanuk

If it's going to take you 6 hours to get to Llandow you might want to consider whether "racing" is the right hobby!

Not that I would encourage breaking the speed limit of course.

Very good point LOL!!

Yep it's all low's.... with people like Driftwood trying to sell dodgy motors ;-)

[tristancliffe]

6 hours there, 6 hours back, for a basic test to learn the basics? Not for me. I'm quite happy to do all nighters when the need arises. I've done gearbox changes in paddocks and engine changes at 3am before. I'm more than willing to do that sort of thing when the need arises. But faces with 12 hours of driving just to avoid doing my ARDS is a bit silly at this stage.

I do want to race at Llandow one day, and then you won't hear a peep of complaint out of me. But not for a first proper test.

6 hours of driving - based on TomTom saying 5, and the Landcruiser/Trailer being a bit slower than a repmobile on which TomTom seems to be based. It's also not me driving, as my car licence doesn't cover trailers. And following the death of my brother in a road accident 5 years ago speed on the road is not even remotely important. When you've had to uncover the face of your brother in a crushed MG Midget to see if he's breathing or not, as I had to do, then you might think twice about trying to break records in a car/trailer combination.

Can I also add that whilst there is a lot of good advice in this thread for me, there is also a lot of sniping and snide remarks going on. I would have thought, in a motorsport forum, that people would be supportive of a new driver, and take into account the situation of the questionee (i.e. me). I've said I'll consider Llandow, but it's not my first choice. No need to ask if I can cope with overnighters, or pressure situations. I've been there before (not as a driver, as a support crew). You can keep the rude comments to yourselves.

[mrsweety]

Originally Posted by tristancliffe

And following the death of my brother in a road accident 5 years ago speed on the road is not even remotely important.

Sorry to hear about your brother!! thats a sad thing! as racers we are very aware of the dangers cars present.

Your quote from your website!!

*Tristan's Car - Out of the Reynard I am currently driving a Mazda MX-5 (technically a Eunos Roadster as it is an import). Not the most fashionable car for hairdressery reasons, and not the quickest either, it was chosen because it remains one of the last sports cars to have 'character' and the fact that is widely considered to be on the best modern handling cars - beating Caterhams, Lotus, Porsches and BMW's on road and track handling tests*

So you don't speed then?

See you on the track!

A

[driftwood]

But faces with 12 hours of driving just to avoid doing my ARDS is a bit silly at this stage.
well a si said earlier u have 2 choices pay the £400 get ards test drive shrt distance to sent mallory etc or if all 3 of u wish to drive the car drive 12 hiurs and have full day at llanduno and all get a good 1-3 hrs in the car
do this 2 or 3 times then those of yr clan who do not want to race can step back and let u do the ards
if the other members later want to do ards or drive to a track that let them run less rac licence do that
however IF u all get kart licences do 2-4 kart races u can get signatures to then perhaps TEST at race track off back of kart licence
go read the BLUE book
[B][Can I also add that whilst there is a lot of good advice in this thread for me, there is also a lot of sniping and snide remarks going on. I would have thought, in a motorsport forum, that people would be supportive of a new driver, and take into account the situation of the questionee (i.e. me). I've said I'll consider Llandow, but it's not my first choice. No need to ask if I can cope with overnighters, or pressure situations. I've been there before (not as a driver, as a support crew). You can keep the rude comments to yourselves/B]
dont take it to heart- u will come in for more stick when u get racing the practise times wil be out and comments get made behind yr back and to yr face
some guys may ask if u have 3 litre engine in yr car if yr that quick or if u ha dit out of 3rd gear if yr that slow
and they are the polite comments
ive been asked if i had an egg timer to use instead of a stop watch but i shoved it up his khyber when i put the car on pole

[tristancliffe]

Originally Posted by mrsweety

So you don't speed then?

Nope. Well, very very very rarely. In derestricted areas I might do 70 on a 60 road, I admit, but I'm no longer a hoon. With an MX-5, or a Porsche or a Caterham etc, you don't need to 'speed' to enjoy the car.

It is, however, extremely good fun when I do go silly, but those days are reserved for track days

[SpawnyWhippet]

Originally Posted by tristancliffe on 2nd Sep

Can I also add that whilst there is a lot of good advice in this thread for me, there is also a lot of sniping and snide remarks going on. I would have thought, in a motorsport forum, that people would be supportive of a new driver, and take into account the situation of the questionee (i.e. me). You can keep the rude comments to yourselves.

At this point, I'd just like to point out that you were the one who started off with the insults. People are generally very helpful on here, they just don't like being abused by people they are offering assistance to.

In response to my comment:

Originally Posted by AndyDickens on 24th Aug

Apologies if this seems a bit flippant, but if you are struggling with funding your Nat B license, maybe running an F3 car isn't the right choice?

You wrote:

Originally Posted by tristancliffe on 24th Aug

Making wisecrack comments a month after a thread was current just to make yourself look better funded isn't exactly a clever response. But then, Australia is populated purely by convicts.

What was it somebody wrote about throwing stones and greenhouses?

[SpawnyWhippet]

Which one is correct?

Originally Posted by tristancliffe in Aug

I'm not struggling for money (for example I've just spend £800 on nomex stuff and a GRP seat, another £100 on a sequential shift light, £200 on custom Willans harnesses etc etc), I'm struggling to justify spending £450 on something that doesn't involve me driving the car, when the licence expires at the end of the year anyway, and the season is coming to an end soon. I'd rather do my ARDS in January and get 12 months of Test Sessions.

Originally Posted by tristancliffe in July

but right now I'm as skint as a skint thing (long business trip recently which cleared my bank account until my expenses get paid). And being back from Uni recently I can't really justify buying a kart at the same time as having a play in an F3 car.

[tristancliffe]

As I work, money becomes less and less of a problem. I was skint then after said business trip, but then I got my expenses paid, and spare money became more justifiable. You'll find it does explain that in the sentences you quoted, in some handy little brackets.

And I wasn't being rude first - you started with the flippant comments. You even knew it was flippant before you wrote it, yet you still wrote it.

Finally, running a single seater is, as far as I've read, actually a very cost effective way of going motorracing. It doesn't need to be more expensive than a compromised saloon car. In fact, so far, this Reynard has been one of the cheapest racing cars I've yet worked on. However, it's the first racing car that three of us have wanted to drive, and the first racing car that we need a race licence to get meaningful miles. As you will undoubtedly have read, I have now planned to get my NatB in the new year, when a few things have been sorted out. Until then I have plenty of things to be getting on with, both on and off the Reynard. Andrew's budget is a bit tight because he's just bought an AMG Merc., but not yet sold his previous Sera (though I'm funding some of his stuff Reynardwise). Martin has recently had an operation to remove a 'lump', and wasn't (and perhaps isn't) in the right frame of mind to worry about getting through an ARDS right at this moment. Me? I'm enjoying working on the car (just finished the set up of the car, though I now believe I'm running a tad too much front camber, and I think we've found a dodgy lower wishbone - dodgy in the sense it's dimensionally inaccurate, not cracked or bent), and I'm actually enjoying Sprinting, but I don't want to have a licence (which costs a lot), use it once this year and still have to reknew it. Why not save that £50 and spend it on something for the car? There's no rush to do these things, and I wasn't asking for advice about WHEN to do it, just how to do it.

I've now been told where we can drive it without a race licence (Llandow), but that option isn't favourable for a first test. I've also had a few replies about ARDS tests, and a few PM's from people giving other advice. In fact, this thread has been very succesful and very friendly. I'd go as far to say that the only person in this thread who has been less than friendly is you Andy. I'd have expected more from someone with 'Veteran' under their name, but it seems you have some sort of vendetta against newbies (as you called me, even though you've only written 700 posts in 4 years) getting into motorsport. May I suggest you get off your high horse, and get back to the real world, where people are nice, polite and helpful on discussion forums such as these.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by tristancliffe

And I wasn't being rude first - you started with the flippant comments. You even knew it was flippant before you wrote it, yet you still wrote it.

Which sounds like a perfectly acceptable explanation of the posting to me - you are the one who blew it up out of proportion. Andy's comment was perfectly acceptable - if you still seem to think that the aards test is expensive - if you think that, then maybe driving an F3 car really isn't for you. The price of the arrds might get you a couple of tyres if you are lucky...or a couple of replacement wishbines, or or or or...

Not meant to be flippant....just an observation.

[tristancliffe]

Do you really think that's a fair comparison? If I need new tyres I'll get new tyres. If I need new wishbones (and I actually suspect I do need one new one, as we have a short one) then we'll get them. A set of wishbones is no more than £100 (I know, I have an offer on the table).

But the ARDS test isn't actually needed YET - I can sprint, I could potentially do track days (though I'm not particularly fond of that idea), and I could test at Llandow. In the new year, once we've got some of the stuff sorted on the car (we keep finding faults), then I'm doing my ARDS. Simple. My Beginners pack thingy is in the post.

The F3 has got nothing to do with costs. A set of tyres for any other car is going to be similar in price, and the same with wishbones. Do people actually think single seaters are more expensive to run? I have seen no evidence of that, and plenty of evidence (including my own) to the contrary. So, for someone who is occasionally short of money (but not right now) single seaters seem to be the most cost effective way of racing. Getting a hatchback and pretending it could ever be a racing car doesn't do anything for me.

But I state again - I wasn't asking for judgements about my financial situation, or advice about whether or not you think F3 is for me or not. What I originally asked for was the most cost effective way of getting on track WITHOUT a race licence. That has been answered already (over a month ago), and I thank those helpful people for that. Now I seem to have some 'mightier than thou' people trying to tell me what I should and shouldn't do.

[driftwood]

Im sorry TC i have to put my foot down
1 wishbones are NOT £100 a set that would not even cover the powder coating of a set
wishbones are £150-200 each i know i have the jigs to supply them
dallara f3 wishbione sis £400 each as an average cost as a rule of thuimb
im not going to spend time arguing about the costs

2 a hatchback IS a cheaper form of going motor racing than a single seater however i grant u the SS is a better car to drive if u can afford it
Ive had Karts saloon cars and now have enough single seaters to say what is better suited to a person than most

3 asto who buys new tyres and when is personal choice ive seen some ugly women in mytime but i wouldnt want to tough them with a barge pole
ive seen some nice looking women as well and wouldnt want to know them once i heard them speak
so each to theri own the main thing on this topic is the ARDS LICENCE TESTING CONCEPT
YOU HAVE HAD THE ADVISE OF PEOPLE TO WORK WITH LEAVE IT AT THAT
not interested in he said she said i get that crap sitting at home

[tristancliffe]

Well, when I get a pair of wishbones turn up for £100, plus a few other bits and bobs I'll let you know. And you should NEVER EVER powder coat suspension or chassis components. The most untalented engineer knows that. Next you'll be chroming them :O Better to have the zinc plated and black passivated. Besides which, your powder coater man is expensive

I know I've had the advice (if that's what you said, I do find it hard to rear your text, so sorry if I misunderstood), and I'm acting upon it. But since then I've had a few people try to put me down for a number of reasons, all of which are unneccessary and slightly immature. Advice - good; belittling comments - bad.

Hatchbacks are cheaper to buy, but then you have the costs of making it race ready, and the end cost is probably about the same that a cheap single seater (e.g. an 883). Admittedly we've got a dodgy wishbone, and we've found several of the bolts were loose, and the setup of our car was all over the place, but that's put right in a few evenings. So for roughly the same cost you can either have a racing car or a glorified shopping car. My opinion; not all would agree (and thats the great thing about opinions - people have different ones), and there's no point arguing about that here.

[Megashed Teaboy]

And you should NEVER EVER powder coat suspension or chassis components. The most untalented engineer knows that. Next you'll be chroming them :O Better to have the zinc plated and black passivated.

You have me confused, as a senior engineer in a multi national aerospace company im just wondering why most race car manufacturers and aerospace supliers would choose to powder coat steel components if it is such a no no, and critical.

Cheers

Rich

[Bob Pearson]

As an engineer at a Nuclear research site and, like Driftwood and along with my son (also an engineer) makes suspension parts for whoever wants them, what the hell is wrong with powder coating them?

[JohnMiller]

Have heard some don't like it as it can hide cracks.