[WEC] BoP. Brilliant or Pants.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

And how do you BOP a bad design. The more I am watching the more dissapointing the Porsche looks in both WEC and IMSA. Is it team or car not that good? Both Cadillac and Acura look like better cars and with less development time.

Isn't BoP meant to level all type of difference whatever the origin? That's why its almost permanently adjusted don't you think so?

As to the Porsches cant say but with the same car (are they really identical?) and different teams working on solving the issues, fully agreed the results are not the reflect of the expectations so far. Yes again, Cadillac doing very well.

Ceci dit sans chauvinisme par rapport a la ville française de Cadillac-sur-Garonne, also called Cadilhac…

[Adam43]

Comparison of lap time spread for Monza: https://tentenths.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=162
Watkins Glen https://tentenths.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=213
Mosport https://tentenths.com/forum/showpost...6&postcount=95

[PhilipR]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Isn't BoP meant to level all type of difference whatever the origin? That's why its almost permanently adjusted don't you think so?

As to the Porsches cant say but with the same car (are they really identical?) and different teams working on solving the issues, fully agreed the results are not the reflect of the expectations so far. Yes again, Cadillac doing very well.

Ceci dit sans chauvinisme par rapport a la ville française de Cadillac-sur-Garonne, also called Cadilhac…

Remember DPs and old LMP2s in IMSA
The LMP2s were faster in corners but the DPs had the straight line advantage - with all the BOP and bringing them very close together the inherent ability to be way faster on the straights meant majority of the wins went to DPs and LMP2s even though the more advanced and tehnically superior cars won very little
Sometimes with all the BOP in the world some cars will have an inherent advantage - unless you start penalising the faster cars through BOP

[joeb]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

LMDHs are based on customer(still cost capped?) lmp2 chasis that need to be versatile to be able to accomodate a multitude of engine and suspension configurations. So integration is not the same between LMHs and LMDHs and also the spec hybrid system probably not as in tune with car as a bespoke one in LMH

The LMDh were announced to be based on next gen P2 chassis - but there is no new P2 class rules! So in effect the LMDh cars are all bespoke chassis as well. Except the manufacturers who share a tub (BMW/Caddy) (Acura/Alpine). The spec hybrid is also a big opportunity for developing an advantage. The hybrid unit deployment and charging is controlled by the programming each manufacturer has come up with.

All the cars are supposed to be in an aero window and a power window. As far as we know, all cars have fit into these windows. Interesting thing to me is that both the ACO and IMSA have to wind tunnel test the cars, and they don't always end up with the same results. Slight differences, yes, but can make a difference when all the cars are this close in optimal performance.

[Steve McQ]

Originally Posted by joeb

The LMDh were announced to be based on next gen P2 chassis - but there is no new P2 class rules! So in effect the LMDh cars are all bespoke chassis as well. Except the manufacturers who share a tub (BMW/Caddy) (Acura/Alpine).

Completely agree with that, and future LMP2 will only be detuned LMDh, while it was supposed to be the other way around.

Question : shouldn't the ACO axe the so-called future LMP2 category and replace it with customer hypercar with silver and bronze drivers at the wheel ? There is a market for those cars if you put LMP2 out of the equation. ELMS would be so much nicer with hypercars as the premium category. Glick, Porsche, Vanwall, IFM, Lambo, Alpine and BMW have a customer racing mindset: they could provide cars to entertain us in the smaller series, and LM24 maybe.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Steve McQ

Completely agree with that, and future LMP2 will only be detuned LMDh, while it was supposed to be the other way around.

LMDh was meant to be detuned LMP2? I’m missing something here.

[Steve McQ]

LMDh was supposed to be (heavily) tuned LMP2. Like DPis of the previous generation. Which means we should have seen new gen LMP2s BEFORE LMDhs. Obviously it will not be the case.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Isn't BoP meant to level all type of difference whatever the origin? That's why its almost permanently adjusted don't you think so?

As to the Porsches cant say but with the same car (are they really identical?) and different teams working on solving the issues, fully agreed the results are not the reflect of the expectations so far. Yes again, Cadillac doing very well.

Ceci dit sans chauvinisme par rapport a la ville française de Cadillac-sur-Garonne, also called Cadilhac…

Yeah, I don't think BoP is meant to stretch this far. That's ridiculous.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Matador

Yeah, I don't think BoP is meant to stretch this far. That's ridiculous.

This.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Steve McQ

LMDh was supposed to be (heavily) tuned LMP2. Like DPis of the previous generation. Which means we should have seen new gen LMP2s BEFORE LMDhs. Obviously it will not be the case.

Ah the order, not the detuned bit. Got it. thanks.

[Gerard C]

In doubt, Google it…

[Adam43]

? I new the LMP2 would have less power than GTP, so I realised I'd missed the point of what was being said, so I asked the person who said it. Way better than google.

Or have I missed what you meant? I've asked google "What did Gerard C on ten tenths mean in that post?" and it tells me about the difference of 7/10ths and 10/10ths, and then points to you talking about Anakin Skywalker.

[Adam43]

I'm totally down with the better tunability and potential advantages of FWD, and indeed RWD hybrid over just RWD. And indeed the order of cars matches that.

The ability to tune your hybrid to alter the dynamics of your car is high. Even with
Generally the best car in IMSA, Acura, have spoken about how much effort they have put into this. The engineers have much more freedom here than F1, even if the architecture is effectively the same. They talk about making changes quickly for real benefit.

Wouldn't it be great to see Honda in WEC.

But I don't think we are really seeing that - there are other bigger natural variations at the moment. Effectively one year in.

The biggest tyre impact has been tyre warmers between Ferrari and Toyota. Both FWD hybrids.

The many lap average points to little difference between one lap and many lap.

I think we may well see this settle more as we go on, but I don't think it is the main driver at the moment. But then we have LMDh Hypercar adjustments for this.

And for the ultimate context, have we ever had a grid this close with so many different cars? I can't recall.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I've asked google "What did Gerard C on ten tenths mean in that post?" and it tells me about the difference of 7/10ths and 10/10ths, and then points to you talking about Anakin Skywalker.

You Brits, when you have fun, you have fun!

[veeten]

But there is a 2year hold on the P2 chassis, so that teams can continue with what they have, and giving the manufacturers time to develop the new chassis. It was announced a couple of months ago

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2022/1...d-to-2025.html

[KlBD]

Originally Posted by veeten

But there is a 2year hold on the P2 chassis, so that teams can continue with what they have, and giving the manufacturers time to develop the new chassis. It was announced a couple of months ago

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2022/1...d-to-2025.html

I remember hearing on RLM that some of the tub suppliers saying that the LMDh tubs are essentially bespoke, having to account for the hybrid systems and would not be easily convertible to LMP2s, if at all. This, plus the delay in the new regulations and the oversubscription of interest in hypercars and GT3 makes you wonder if the next gen LMP2s will actually happen at all.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by veeten

But there is a 2year hold on the P2 chassis, so that teams can continue with what they have, and giving the manufacturers time to develop the new chassis. It was announced a couple of months ago KIBD mentioned.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2022/1...d-to-2025.html

Yes, I think this context has been in everyone’s posting?

Quite possibly the new LMP2 isn’t as much of a need as it was. As But we have some nice new GTPs. Lovely. Do we have a LMP2 thread?

[veeten]

Personally, I see that it might be P3 that's for the chopping block. Yes, they are getting a new engine upgrade, but besides that it's been pretty mum about the chassis beyond '25.

Just saying...

[veeten]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Yes, I think this context has been in everyone’s posting?

Quite possibly the new LMP2 isn’t as much of a need as it was. But we have some nice new GTPs. Lovely. Do we have a LMP2 thread?

Yes, I did one about the P3 teams "moving up" to P2. Should be around here, somewhere...

[Adam43]

Closest LMP2 thread: https://tentenths.com/forum/showthre...highlight=Lmp2
Even mentions relationship to GT.

But maybe a new thread would be good?

Originally Posted by veeten

Yes, I did one about the P3 teams "moving up" to P2. Should be around here, somewhere...

Cool

Bump it if you like.

[veeten]

Found it! It was over in the North American Racing section...

[Adam43]

That’s unification for you!

[KlBD]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Yes, I think this context has been in everyone’s posting?

Quite possibly the new LMP2 isn’t as much of a need as it was. As But we have some nice new GTPs. Lovely. Do we have a LMP2 thread?

I got some deja vu shortly after posting this comment, and couldn't remember if I previously already mentioned it on here or instagram, so apologies if I was making a redundant point.

[Adam43]

No problem. I was the same, trying to work it out.

[veeten]

Okay, now that the BoP's are now set in both series' for the run to the finish, there should be very little politics involved. You race what you have, and may the best drivers/team win in their respective category.