[FIA GT] FIA GT2 Spa 24 Hours • Spa • July 30-Aug 1st

[gert]

Is BMS racing anywhere else except at Le Mans and Spa this year?

I'm a bit surprised they were chosen to represent Porsche this year. I mean: look at the factory drivers they had at both LM and here.

The last year(s) they were really struggling with the Ferrari when compared to the other Ferrari teams.

Last year they were also running a Porsche (under the Brixia team banner), and some Astons in FIA GT3. And maybe some national GT racing too.
AFAIK they are without a full programme this year?

It came a bit as a surprise that they were one of the favored Porsche teams, given their Ferrari history, and Porsche probably had a lot of teams to chose from.

Does anyone know why they picked BMS?

[The Badger]

Can someone please post the full results please , cheers .

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Can someone please post the full results please , cheers .

http://www.gt2europe.com/results.php...=Race%20Result

Tom.

[arakis]

Race Result
Pos Car Class Drivers Car Time Laps Gap Avg
speed
1 23 GT2 Dumas / Bergmeister / Ragginger / Henzler Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) 24:00:27.341 541 0.000 0
2 16 GT2 Narac / Long / Pilet / Lietz Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) 24:01:44.163 541 1:16.822 0
3 79 GTN Werner / Müller / Adorf / BMW M3 24:01:34.635 540 1:07.294 0
4 78 GTN Müller / Lamy / Alzen / BMW M3 24:01:31.393 534 1:04.052 0
5 1 GT2 Waltrip / Cadei / Kauffmann / Cioci Ferrari F430 24:01:50.763 519 1:23.422 0
6 53 GT3 Häring / Konstantinou / Peyroles / Vannelet Porsche 911 GT3 R 24:01:45.255 518 1:17.914 0
7 4 GT2 van Splunteren / Hommerson / Machiels / Bastiaans Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) 24:00:27.995 515 0.654 0
8 99 GT3 Leinders / Martin / Duez / Ford GT 24:01:32.261 512 1:04.920 0
9 68 GT3 Blundell / Brown / Dean / Cheever Audi R8 LMS 24:02:13.983 503 1:46.642 0
10 67 GT3 Johansson / Li / Patterson / Assentato Audi R8 LMS 24:02:59.559 501 2:32.218 0
11 7 GT2 Ashburn / Rosenblad / Asch / Bergmeister Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) 24:01:29.267 500 1:01.926 0
12 17 GT2 Bourret / Gibon / Belloc / Balandras Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) 24:01:44.150 498 1:16.809 0
13 73 GT3 Ortelli / Mollekens / Lemeret / Verbist Audi R8 LMS 24:01:29.113 497 1:01.772 0
14 71 GT3 Mortimer / Bamford / Griffin / Ford GT 24:00:44.225 492 16.884 0
15 60 GT3 Slingerland / Soulet / Schroyen / Menten Porsche 911 GT3 R 24:00:29.164 488 1.823 0
16 81 GTN Grosjean / Radermaecker / Alessi / Marchal Mosler MT900 24:00:41.329 466 13.988 0
17 66 GTN Lichtner Hoyer / Eckert / Seefried / Rich Porsche 997 GT3 Cup MY06 24:00:40.972 461 13.631 0
18 56 GT3 Corbel / Duchene / Beroujon / Bernard BMW Alpina B6 GT3 24:00:57.783 441 30.442 0
19 58 GTN van der Straten / Al Azhari / Close / Qvick Ford Mustang FR500C GT 24:00:28.744 431 1.403 0
20 55 GT3 Brandela / Lesoudier / Prignaud / Stepec BMW Alpina B6 GT3 20:49:20.143 417 3:11:07.19 0
21 86 GT3 Andre / Goethe / Wainwright / Demoustier Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 24:00:30.600 410 3.259 0
22 59 GT4 Dolan / Hancock / Wills / Twyman Aston Martin V8 Vantage 24:04:17.539 376 3:50.198 0
23 85 GT3 Giroix / Fatien / Valentini / Beltoise Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 20:54:15.837 374 3:06:11.50 0
24 70 GT4 Viale / de Coster / NelissenGrade / Renmans Aston Martin V8 Vantage 24:01:06.569 338 39.228 0
25 69 GT4 Deblauwe / Brugmans / Grandjean / Gerome Porsche 997 GT3 Cup MY06 24:00:32.876 333 5.535 0
26 64 GT3 Renard / Verbergt / Wauters / van Hooydonk Aston Martin DBRS9 22:13:24.385 328 1:47:02.95 0
27 51 GT3 Margaritis / Hennerici / Piccini / Moser Audi R8 LMS 15:08:15.392 325 8:52:11.94 0
28 2 GT2 Bruni / Longin / van de Poele / Vilander Ferrari F430 13:20:16.287 295 10:40:11.0 0
29 50 GT3 Kumpen / Fässler / Luhr / Rockenfeller Audi R8 LMS 13:20:18.488 294 10:40:08.8 0
30 98 GT3 De Doncker / Kuppens / Palttala / Ford GT 11:46:19.998 249 12:14:07.3 0
31 91 GTN Broodcooren / Marin / Barbaro / Corten Porsche 997 Cup 12:40:12.908 235 11:20:14.4 0
32 13 GT2 Westbrook / Holzer / Lieb / Goossens Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) 10:11:40.492 207 13:48:46.8 0
33 52 GT3 Fumal / de Lorenzi / Thiry / Thomas Porsche 911 GT3 R 6:15:03.983 135 17:45:23.3 0
34 74 GT3 Bouvy / Kelders / Blachemain / Tuchbant Audi R8 LMS 7:20:57.850 127 16:39:29.4 0
35 100 GTN Vos / Schothorst / Coronel / Kolen Porsche 997 GT3 Cup S 4:16:47.312 91 19:43:40.0 0
36 84 GT3 Kox / Hayek / Bonaldi / Lee Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 2:51:38.649 63 21:08:48.6 0
37 72 GT3 Franchi / Vosse / Stippler / Biela Audi R8 LMS 2:25:31.503 57 21:34:55.8 0
38 61 GT3 Brouard / Noziere / Kerkhove / Sougnez Porsche 911 GT3 R 1:51:40.383 43 22:08:46.9 0
39 63 GT3 D'Ansembourg / Grivegnee / Demay / Merche Aston Martin DBRS9 1:09:23.275 25 22:51:04.0 0
40 62 GT4 Barff / Ordonez / Buncombe / Buncombe Nissan 370Z 1:03:34.892 23 22:56:52.4 0

[NightStalk3r]

Patrick Long's got it right

"Well done to our brothers in red; we’re working on getting them different race suits so we can identify them as a Porsche team, but I’ve got some arguments over here in Italiano."

[stuart thompson]

Truly gutted. But at least I was at the Ring to witness the victory there.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by stuart thompson

Truly gutted. But at least I was at the Ring to witness the victory there.

Always best to loose it early that loose it late...

Loosing it late is heartbreaking and disappointing. I was looking forward to BMW winning. But like Jorg said its just as well because the Hybrid failed with a few hours to go and BMW won.

Now Petit Le Mans is on the line... That should prove INTERESTING

[Spyderman]

Ok - I have been doing some reading and it appears the Porsche teams had some difficulty with their set up on customer tires.
Given the above, the speed differential between the BMW's and the Porsche's may have been related more to this issue rather than "advantages" had by the BMW's.
I therefore apologize to the BMW fan-boys for my earlier posts.
I am a little surprised that the customer tires effects the speed of the Porsche's by as much as 2 to 3 seconds. If this is in fact the case, then this series will be more about how certain cars adapt to their customer tires , rather than about car and driver/s.

[ubrben]

Originally Posted by arakis

while porsche and ferrari use the 28,6 restrictor, just to clarify the 29.4mm should be used for a 3.2l engine to make the same power as the 4l, in the rule book that is

Ferrari are at 29.1 in ALMS (not 100% sure about LMS) since going to 14" tyre regs.

You all need to except that a fixed rule book does not exist in GT racing anymore. If you're slower you get help and if you're quicker you get slowed down. Applies to everyone.

Ben

[ubrben]

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

I don't think the BMW's are on Dunlop Customer rubber though.

Full customer rubber. Same spec tyre that Audi ran on GT3 in Balance of performance in Feb... I'm not kidding.

BMW is ACO spec.

Fastest lap of Spa LMS in May - BMW #79 Augusto Farfus

They were quick but with poor consistency in LMS they had no testing at that point plus everyone was trying to manage lap times to ensure no weight or restrictor penalties for Le Mans. Farfus went crazy and slipped a lap out and they got screwed for Le Mans.

Car is much more developed now. Believe me developing a package like this is a long, hard process.

Ben

[ubrben]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I am sure that I read some where (problem is I can't remember where) that they were using some special tires developed by Dunlop. Could it have been just during practice?
Why then the GTN status?
Also - How to explain the speed differential (please don't say "development")

Same Dunlop customer tyres all through the practice and race.

GTN because Ratel didn't want a "saloon car" ruining his GT race. He forced them into GTN so he didn't have to give them 45Kg off.

Ben

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by ubrben

Same Dunlop customer tyres all through the practice and race.

GTN because Ratel didn't want a "saloon car" ruining his GT race. He forced them into GTN so he didn't have to give them 45Kg off.

Ben

OK - thanks!
Please read my last post (#483).

[arakis]

Originally Posted by ubrben

Ferrari are at 29.1 in ALMS (not 100% sure about LMS) since going to 14" tyre regs.

You all need to except that a fixed rule book does not exist in GT racing anymore. If you're slower you get help and if you're quicker you get slowed down. Applies to everyone.

Ben

Nope they went from 27.4 to 28.6 as per regulation, read the regs here link

where did you get 29.1, here is a link to ferrari offical page for the 2010 f430
link

[ubrben]

Originally Posted by arakis

Nope they went from 27.4 to 28.6 as per regulation, read the regs here link

where did you get 29.1, here is a link to ferrari offical page for the 2010 f430
link

Working in ALMS.

They went to it for 14", but it's not in a bulletin because it hasn't been changed from what they got under homologation for the switch to 14" regs.

Ben

[arakis]

Originally Posted by ubrben

Working in ALMS.

They went to it for 14", but it's not in a bulletin because it hasn't been changed from what they got under homologation for the switch to 14" regs.

Ben

the regs say that if you take the 1245kg you get for the 4l engine withe more then 3 valves and 4l 2*28.6mm, so I don;t understand what you are saying, I belive you but could you explain, becouse under the current ACO regulations for 14'' tires they should have 28.6mm, thanks

[ubrben]

Originally Posted by arakis

the regs say that if you take the 1245kg you get for the 4l engine withe more then 3 valves and 4l 2*28.6mm, so I don;t understand what you are saying, I belive you but could you explain, becouse under the current ACO regulations for 14'' tires they should have 28.6mm, thanks

So BMW should be on 28.6, but they're on 29.4...

Like I said you only know BMW's on 29.4 because it was homologated at 28.6 and given 29.4 as a balance of performance adjustment, hence you know about it because there was a bulletin.

The Ferrari on 14" tyres has always had 29.1 so it's in the homologation document that gives it a waiver from the regs and no bulletin has been issued.

Ben

[Tim the Grey]

I love the way this has degenerated into a sub folder for the FIAT v VW thread...
Some RACING news, a couple of Ten Tenths members won the GT4 class. Aston Vantage N24, run by Team JOTA, with Roger Wills and Joe Twyman, regulars in Historics, took a deserved victory, after a nail biting last hour, with car problems meaning it was in and out of pit lane FAR too often!

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

I love the way this has degenerated into a sub folder for the FIAT v VW thread...
Some RACING news, a couple of Ten Tenths members won the GT4 class. Aston Vantage N24, run by Team JOTA, with Roger Wills and Joe Twyman, regulars in Historics, took a deserved victory, after a nail biting last hour, with car problems meaning it was in and out of pit lane FAR too often!

I saw that and congrats, but somebody needs to tell Wills to step away from the dinner table I'm sure its worth a tenth or two.

BTW I would tell Mark Blundell the same thing...

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

I love the way this has degenerated into a sub folder for the FIAT v VW thread...
Some RACING news, a couple of Ten Tenths members won the GT4 class. Aston Vantage N24, run by Team JOTA, with Roger Wills and Joe Twyman, regulars in Historics, took a deserved victory, after a nail biting last hour, with car problems meaning it was in and out of pit lane FAR too often!

They look very happy and rightly so, a wonderful achievement for them, well done guys!!

[Tim the Grey]

Somebody rightly said, it's been a good weekend when you have a big trophy, and stink of champagne!

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by ubrben

Full customer rubber. Same spec tyre that Audi ran on GT3 in Balance of performance in Feb... I'm not kidding.

According to http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...race-notebook/

Dirk Werner, who was in the No. 79 car when the late-race trouble struck, says the tires run were in fact last year’s development rubber used in the ALMS. The tires had to be homologated by the FIA prior to this weekend’s race, to prevent any unfair advantage.

[Spyderman]

..The plot thickens!

[ubrben]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

..The plot thickens!

Not really. If they're available commercially it's irrelevant what they were used for in previous seasons.

If a tyre is submitted to the FIA for homologation for FIA events it is a "customer" tyre. Just because the perception is widespread that Michelin have customer tyres and "confidential" tyres worth big steps in lap time doesn't mean that's the same for everyone.

The idea that a Michelin "confidential" tyre is worth more than 0.5 seconds is good PR and no more.

Ben

[Spyderman]

I take your point, but weren't the Dunlop tires designed especially for the BMW's ? (thus the confidential status the previous year)
Also - I still cant find a reason for why the Porsche's were doing 2:20 -2:24 laps in the LMS Spa 1000Km event (using confidential rubber) and were no where near those lap times during the 24H event (customer rubber). Part of the deferential can be put down to strategy, but I don't believe that explains all.

[NightStalk3r]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I take your point, but weren't the Dunlop tires designed especially for the BMW's ? (thus the confidential status the previous year)
Also - I still cant find a reason for why the Porsche's were doing 2:20 -2:24 laps in the LMS Spa 1000Km event (using confidential rubber) and were no where near those lap times during the 24H event (customer rubber). Part of the deferential can be put down to strategy, but I don't believe that explains all.

Im pretty sure the Michelin runners were on the spec GT2 tire that FIA GT used last year, and if you compare laptimes last year between the LMS and FIA GT on tracks both series visited, the FIA GT on Spec tires was a good 2seconds or more slower than the LMS on development tires on the same track, so if BMW were really using last years development tires then it is no wonder they were much quicker, and it really is a poor decision by the FIA to allow them to be used, if they are going to allow BMW to use development tires then they should allow everyone else to use them.