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14 May 2010, 21:05 (Ref:2690581) | #501 | |||
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pieter melissen |
14 May 2010, 21:59 (Ref:2690596) | #502 | |
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I am sure Audi has good estimates of the drag, downforce, power, etc of the 908. So they know from similation what the pace both the R15+ and the 908 will have at Le Mans.
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15 May 2010, 06:20 (Ref:2690717) | #503 | ||
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Estimates. Despite Peugeot's words after Le Mans about development ceasing on the 908, I'm pretty sure that they did some more development work on it beyond modifying it for 2010 regulations.
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When in doubt? C4. |
15 May 2010, 07:21 (Ref:2690725) | #504 | |
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Both teams are not stupid and have a lot of data on each other, from previous years and also Spa, estimates are normally not so far away, it depends if they can actually achieve them for the entire race.
It is up to Audi to prove they are up to the task. |
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15 May 2010, 07:35 (Ref:2690727) | #505 | |||
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Edit: Before somebody says it, yes, I know, that last year they were not pushed to the limits.... Last edited by henk4; 15 May 2010 at 07:45. |
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pieter melissen |
15 May 2010, 08:01 (Ref:2690739) | #506 | |
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At the address a complete report with 145 photos:
http://www.connectingrod.it/LeMansSe...a/spa_eng.html [IMG]file:///C:/Users/Giacomo/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/Users/Giacomo/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.png[/IMG] |
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15 May 2010, 09:27 (Ref:2690772) | #507 | ||
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In 2008 Peugeot was on pole with 58.0 and Audi second with 58.7 so Peugeot was 2/10th quicker than 2008 and Audi the same. That is a more relevant information when you consider Peugeot was on high downforce and Audi on Le Mans. |
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15 May 2010, 11:08 (Ref:2690821) | #508 | ||
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My remark was meant to indicate that in spite of further performance restictions to the diesel engines, the Pugs managed a considerable increase in speed, even compared to 2008. So the idea that Peugeot would not further develop the car for the 2010 season may not be correct.
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pieter melissen |
15 May 2010, 18:46 (Ref:2691046) | #509 | ||
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Tires are also a lot better than in '08, and anyone think that the regs may've helped the diesels, ie make them easier to drive?
A speed increase of maybe .2 of a second compared to '08 isn't that significant, but does show that the ACO's attempts to slow the cars significantly has failed. |
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16 May 2010, 03:23 (Ref:2691242) | #510 | ||
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Probae esti in segetem sunt deteriorem datae fruges, tamen ipsae suaptae enitent |
16 May 2010, 03:42 (Ref:2691246) | #511 | ||
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The diesels are supposed to have 12-13% less power and are carrying 30kgs more weight than in '08.
It can't be all down to development on the cars. Tires are better than in '08, and if you ask me, taking power away from the diesels have made them easier to drive, and that probably has lowered laptimes. Even the gasoline engined cars are faster than in '08 for the most part, even with the rear wing span reduction applicable to all LMP cars outside of the ALMS(and even LMP1s run the short wing). I don't think that car development is down to it nearly as much as the fact that tires have improved and the rules are having unintened consequences for the ACO(like how at Sebring in '09 the cars were faster than ever in spite of air restrictor and wing size reductions). |
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16 May 2010, 07:09 (Ref:2691290) | #512 | |||
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pieter melissen |
16 May 2010, 20:17 (Ref:2691955) | #513 | ||
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But then again, the Pugs are largely in 2009 spec, aside from parts added to the cars for rules compliance, and to counter the 2010 engine regs.
And does anyone think that the ACO's rules with the rear fender louvers has also backfired, as it seems that only Lola's intrepretation is within the "spirt" of the rules? The Pescarolos run louvers that are angled upward with a slight dropoff trailing edge. The Pugs run a blanking panel that's shaped like the underside of a dive plane. And the Audi R15's solution is probably the most complex, as it's(or was) believed to have an inner set of louvres that angled downwards and fed the air onto adjacent upward angled louvres. That may or may not be the case. But it's another example of how muddy the ACO's rules wording appears and how teams can take advantage of someting inteneded to slow the cars to at least maintain the pace of previous years. |
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16 May 2010, 21:33 (Ref:2692016) | #514 | ||
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And yet 2 years down the road they are ONLY ".2 " seconds a lap faster at Spa!
L.P. |
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Probae esti in segetem sunt deteriorem datae fruges, tamen ipsae suaptae enitent |
16 May 2010, 21:39 (Ref:2692021) | #515 | ||
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But with smaller wings and less power, they haven't been slowed significantly, and that probably won't happen until next year, and that's if the ACO's new proposed engine regs work, and that's another can of worms in the works it seems: http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsmay10.html
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16 May 2010, 23:59 (Ref:2692104) | #516 | ||
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17 May 2010, 04:04 (Ref:2692179) | #517 | ||
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Well, then it could be said that the Audi R8 should be much faster than the diesels by now.
Fact of the matter is that the ACO's rules maybe only work for a year or two at best, then the cars become faster than ever. IE, Sebring '09, the diesels had about 10% less power, and all LMP1 cars had smaller wings, but were as fast, if not faster than ever, particulary the diesels. I just feel that the ACO's temporay slow downs buy adjusting the rules aren't worth it aside from reducing costs from imposing an entirely new engine formula, and even then, as Audi and Peugeot will tell you, the intital R&D cost to get back the downforce from the wing span reduction was more than it should've been if only the ACO handed out smaller air restrictory to everyone for little or no cost. And what of the ACO legality panels that the likes of Audi, Peugeot, Acura, Oreca, Pescarolo and other made into areo aids? Unintened conseqences, and a conveinet excuse for teams to continue with the pontoon fender front end areo and use the legality panels as areo aids. And don't get me started on the ACO giving teams back the 2002 spec air restrictors when all the cars were LMP1/2 spec. The only other way that the ACO will slow the cars is with a spec tire, but I doubt that the ACO are dumb enough to go that route. |
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17 May 2010, 06:58 (Ref:2692246) | #518 | ||
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pieter melissen |
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