Nissan LMP1 Discussion

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

The project had so many things that had to go right and those same things were at high risk of going wrong. Toss in a likely lack of funding and an unrealistic development schedule and it was a recipe for disaster. I have my doubts about the concept, but it is unfair that we didn’t get to see if it had legs or not. I doubt we ever will.

I agree with this summary.

We can neither be certain that the concept was a complete failure, nor can we attribute it's failure solely to the hybrid part. Being adamant about either is incorrect.

Repeating what I have said before (getting into the spirit of the thread albeit without blinkered arrogance or personal insults) and based on my own observations the car needed much more development than the hybrid. There was a basic issue with braking and handling that restricted it's lap time to the poor level we saw at Le Mans. Corner exit you can see being aided by power from rear hybrid, but not the braking (or mid corner). The aptitude under braking was scary.

It is a shame we didn't get to see it developed more. With hindsight (or maybe not) it was clear that the time and resources weren't going to be there. The basic premise that the only way to beat Audi if you had a lower budget was to take a unconventional route was, in this case, incorrect. From that perspective this programme has not been a success.

[wdave0]

It's a funny thing that a budget limited effort can succeed by finding some innovation that works and gives them an advantage. It seems that may have been part of the plan but wow - every part of the car was an innovation except for the steering wheel and the ICE - way too much at one time.
Secondly, it appears that nobody had any experience with FWD (not surprising given prototype background) or they would have known racing one is "an act against nature" and very different.
I would have loved to see a few of the novelties at a time to know what might work but overambition has scotched that.

[chernaudi]

IMO, the project was so extreme overall that the guys at Nissan in charge of this program that if they pulled it off, they'd look like geniuses. If it failed, they'd look like idiots. And there was little margin for error between those two extremes.

[YorkshireLad]

Does anybody know what will happen to the cars and parts if they've totally cut the program?

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

IMO, the project was so extreme overall that the guys at Nissan in charge of this program that if they pulled it off, they'd look like geniuses. If it failed, they'd look like idiots. And there was little margin for error between those two extremes.

LITTLE? I'd say zero.

[chernaudi]

Well, where did the guys at Nissan end up? Got it right, they'd have been heroes. Got it wrong, they'd have been zeroes. And considering that the program's pretty much toast, I'd say they got it wrong and went from hero to zero in no time flat.

Of course, the guys who got shafted big time where the guys who got their pink slips. And they didn't even get that, just emails or text messages stating that they were layed off.

[old man]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Not sure if joking, but if not, canning and redundancies just under Christmas is horrendous, not good timing. Besides the season effectively ended half a season ago so the dev frame was halway through already...

Audi/Porsche/Toyota initial reactions we're pretty much identical in tone to Audi/Pug's to AMR One. So maybe if Subaru or whomever comes along in the future and the others just giggle at their direction, we don't even have to guess what the pace's gonna be at LM.

I accept your point, was just thinking lots of teams still likely to have opportunities for good staff in 2016. Never is a good time to lose your job

[merlot brougham]

Despite the disastrous results, they had the courage (stupidity?) to go all in on a daring concept. Whether it was for marketing purposes or a technical exercise or somewhere in the middle I think they should be applauded. That's why I watch sportscar racing and have loved it as long as I can remember. The crazy concepts the bigger than life personalities...I don't know about you but I have been massively entertained by this whole thing despite being highly doubtful it was ever going to succeed.

[Alex Langheck]

The more it went on the more it became like another Nissan Garage 56 effort. Basically, that's what it was. They missed the preceding 2 races as they weren't ready, but rocked up at Le Mans with the added publicity, the car still wasn't ready, then pulled the plug on the rest of the season.

My patience with Nissan is running out ( yes, they've done a lot of good) I hope the ACO don't give them another G56 until they've proven they can run a full WEC programme.
Sorry for the cynicism.

[lne937s]

I hope they come back, as the concept deserves further development.

Having an optimized underbody and flow-through aero by not having the back filled up with engine and drivetrain has the potential to provide a strong enough L/D ratio to overcome any issues of weight transfer in terms of overall lap times. In the simulations, the car was significantly faster. The physics behind the concept are sound...

But the development was lacking. The hybrid drive didn't work, requiring significant redesign of the car. The rear suspension was not figured out yet, leading to less than ideal ride height. The crash structure was not up to snuff. And once all that was figured out, they would still need to test and optimize the setups for different tracks... I just hope that people do not write-off the concept because the execution was not fully developed.

[gustavobamba]

This is just a silly joke nothing more OK... please don´t get me wrong



- Is this the place were nissan will bury their lmp1 GT-R LM NIsmo... they at least have plate´s

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/la-...s-se-poursuit/

look at the photo nº2

[Deleted]

I'm shocked they haven't torn down the numerous Nissan PR stickers on the sides of the road yet, in my mind I imagined raged Pierre Fillon and Vincent Beaumesnil running to them with torches and axes right after the announcement was made.

[Akrapovic]

Nissan will probably continue the Nissan/Nismo/EatSleepCringeRepeat stuff. Paint over the GTR stuff and continue on with LMP2 engines, pretending nothing happened.

[Deleted]

Yeah the great Zyt... Nissan engines.

That will be obsolete come the new spec regs.

I guess they could market the LMP3 or GT3, but I'm not sure how many will take note of the 1 hour MGT3CUP support race. There's also the GT Academy, but how long can you keep milking on that?

[TF110]

As long as it works. GTAcademy drivers take part in LM, Nissan supply the vast majority of lmp2 engines. The sponsorship won't drop because the lmp1 isn't racing.

[Deleted]

Yeah as I said the supply-branding ends as soon as the Zytek spec engine is enforced, so after that has happened all there is for Nissan (in the main race) is the GT Academy. Are they still making those contests?

[TF110]

It's not 2017 yet. Maybe come back to the topic in a year's time? So far, the branding is staying. But beyond this year, who knows?

[Coach Ep]

Maybe Nissan wants to rebrand the spec Zytek engine as 'GT Academy' and let their Playstation boys drive an Oreca or 2?

[Deleted]

Wasn't it a great success this year when Morand rebranded the Judd-BMW on the Pescarolo as SARD. I'm still not sure what the point of all that was, as if anyone was ever gonna buy SARD had anything to do with the power (even if SARD had been more than just vaporware in that mess of a team). Similarly what will the point of these surely inevitable upcoming Zytek engine rebrandings, you know "Mobil 1" or "Cairos Technologies" or whatever dollar sign names they'll come up with... you could have those sponsor titles in your regular title, like "Oreca Matmut" or "Peugeot Total" etc

It's insane that you cannot have OEM branded engine in LMP2, but you can in LMP3 (even though the Nissan is spec there too). Not to mention that the spec chassis number is higher in the smaller class! It makes no sense. Money lust is high.

[chernaudi]

SARD also sponsored the Greaves Zytek, which of course had a Nissan engine in it--that's about all Gibson Tech will put in their own chassis, since they also build/sell the engines.

[Deleted]

Regardless, the Zytek-Nissan of Greaves wasn't rebadged as SARD on the official documents, unlike the Judd-BMW of Morand was.

[Deleted]

Noticed that the Super Bowl ad price per 30 seconds on CBS has gone to 5 million USD this year, meaning that the same 90 second ad would've cost Nissan 15 million instead of 13,5 million of last year. So probably glad they did it then with this tie-up and not now.

Of course they will probably* still place for this year but for generic road cars. I'm not sure if CBS is offering 15 second slots now like NBC was last year

*haven't seen it listed yet though so perhaps sabbatical for overspending

[Akrapovic]

Looks like Andy Blackmore doesn't have Nissan sponsorship for the ELMS/WEC/LM guides this year. Are Nissan just dropping all marketing now?

[Deleted]

Hopefully that would apply to RLM as well.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Hopefully that would apply to RLM as well.

Only if RLM manages to secure a large enough replacement, that is something I would hope for.
I rather listen and ignore "Eat,Sleep,Race,Repeat" than seeing RLM having to cut down because of lost sponsorship.