Tech Issue 2011 Pirelli tyres - Page 22

Marbot · 15 Apr 2011, 09:54 (Ref:2863648)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

The problem I have is. the tyres lose so much rubber that there is only one racing line otherwise you are driving on ice, therefore it makes passing very difficult..

No driver has yet complained that he could not overtake another car because of marbles on the track. No driver has gone straight on at a corner because his tyres lost grip while overtaking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

The "clag" the tyres produce is hitting the drivers in the face and hands, at 350KPH that is not funny..

I don't think it's funny either, but again, only one driver complained about it and then said that it was no big deal. The FIA need to look into what it was that caused the damage to Perez's car very closely though, because it has now been confirmed that it wasn't any part of another car!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

There are way to many pitstops so this makes following the action rather harder than before..

I didn't find it hard to follow, and tracks like Sepang will always be harder on tyres anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

What is the upside?

They will still sell tyres by the way because F1 has very little to do with Scott driving to his local supermarket..

Indeed.

Marbot · 15 Apr 2011, 14:37 (Ref:2863786)

Some good news Jeremy!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90734

luke g28 · 15 Apr 2011, 16:04 (Ref:2863833)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkG

IMHO the current tyres, Kers and DRS are just temporary attempts to create artificial overtaking (and interest?) because the rules allow such ridiculous amounts of downforce in F1 cars. Massive downforce and very short braking distances equates to boring "racing", and whilst F1 cars have these properties, then proper racing with some "real" overtaking is pretty well non-existant apart from on rare occasions.
Unless F1 cars change to having vastly reduced downforce and braking distances, the only choice is to have artificial manipulation, or follow-my-leader "racing".

2 points I disagree with here. Firstly the whole car is designed to be an artificial overtaking device. Thats kind of the point. The DRS isnt hugely different to having an F duct (except there are rules on when you can use it). Similarly having KERS as a boost button isnt an awful idea and could be a pretty interesting bit of kit. Im sure I heard of a road car that was coming with KERS on...

2nd point. Downforce isnt the problem especially, the problem is that the down force is acquired from the wings, vanes etc on top of the car which are highly sensitive to their airflow. Using the bottom of the car, ground effect for example will yeild much higher downforce but will be less affected by the car in front.

Personally I think the best way to open up overtaking is too remove a lot of the design regulation. Hell have a maximum size for the car, a minimum weight and only allow one tank of fuel and must fit all the safety rules. That would make things interesting. You can imagine the different directions the teams would take and the huge variety in the cars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkG

I'm not impressed or excited by a F1 driver overtaking purely because he has a significantly better tyre at that moment, or he's just pressed the Kers button, or he's just operated DRS.

All the talk about reducing F1 costs is just hot air. I would guess that costs can be reduced by a significant amount if downforce was reduced by 70%, and DRS and Kers were removed, and F1 would be the better for it.

Can you imagine watching the first race and seeing the lap times being 50% higher. That would be ace wouldnt it. How would you measure the downforce reduction? Do you not think that the teams would find another way to replace the downforce you have denied them?

double diffuser >> flexible front wings >> Fducts >> blown diffusers >> blown floors

etc.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 15 Apr 2011, 17:05 (Ref:2863865)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke g28

Personally I think the best way to open up overtaking is too remove a lot of the design regulation. Hell have a maximum size for the car, a minimum weight and only allow one tank of fuel and must fit all the safety rules. That would make things interesting. You can imagine the different directions the teams would take and the huge variety in the cars.

I would like to see the design regulations freed up but the FIA will probably say no because it will push up costs.

Taprobane · 15 Apr 2011, 17:30 (Ref:2863878)

They'd go too fast. The problem with freeing up the rules if someone like Newey will build an absolute rocket ship and the drivers will barely be able to hang on.

TrapezeArtist · 15 Apr 2011, 21:46 (Ref:2863991)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taprobane

They'd go too fast. The problem with freeing up the rules if someone like Newey will build an absolute rocket ship and the drivers will barely be able to hang on.

Not if you have a simple catch-all rule that severely limits downforce. The cars might go like a scalded cat (within the limits of traction) up the straight but halfway along they'll be on the brakes to get it stopped in time for the next corner.

I would love to see racing with just two aerodynamic rules:
1 No aerofoil sections (ie no wings)
2 A means of preventing ground effect downforce (not sure how you would do that)

Then we would have similarly simple engine rules:
1 No of cylinders, capacity and revs all free
2 No launch control, traction control, special clutches or other gizmos.

Engine power would be limited by driveability. Maximum speed would be limited by the problems of accelerating and braking, and the length of straights. Cars spinning or going off the track would stop much more quickly because they wouldn't "lose downforce" (because they didn't have any to start with). Run-off areas could be much reduced.

JeremySmith · 15 Apr 2011, 23:25 (Ref:2864030)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Some good news Jeremy!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90734

Yes I saw that, thank you...

Knowlesy · 16 Apr 2011, 12:43 (Ref:2864261)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

No driver has yet complained that he could not overtake another car because of marbles on the track. No driver has gone straight on at a corner because his tyres lost grip while overtaking.

Petrov, for one, went off at Malaysia because of marbles ON the racing line.

Marbot · 16 Apr 2011, 13:11 (Ref:2864276)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Petrov, for one, went off at Malaysia because of marbles ON the racing line.

*sarcasm mode on* Must be the first driver ever in the history of F1 to do that. *sarcasm mode off*

Sounds like a good excuse too.

Knowlesy · 16 Apr 2011, 13:17 (Ref:2864279)

Well you did say that no driver had lost grip because of marbles.

Marbot · 16 Apr 2011, 13:25 (Ref:2864282)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Well you did say that no driver had lost grip because of marbles.

Ah yes. I can now see the flaw in my post.

However, Petrov did manage to 'fly' off the road when not overtaking. Or maybe that actually counts as 'over'-taking?

JeremySmith · 16 Apr 2011, 14:30 (Ref:2864295)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

*sarcasm mode on* Must be the first driver ever in the history of F1 to do that. *sarcasm mode off*

Sounds like a good excuse too.

Three drivers have complained about rubber on the racing line Vettel being one of them, Paul di Resta and Petrov were the other two. All three of these drivers know what they are talking about. The rubber is not right at the moment IMHO..

Matt · 16 Apr 2011, 18:14 (Ref:2864370)

whats with the silver stripes on the yellow lettered tires?

ralf fan · 16 Apr 2011, 18:46 (Ref:2864382)

The silver stripes show that its a yellow lettered tire.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 16 Apr 2011, 19:06 (Ref:2864389)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralf fan

The silver stripes show that its a yellow lettered tire.

Ofcourse.

Knowlesy · 16 Apr 2011, 19:23 (Ref:2864400)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

whats with the silver stripes on the yellow lettered tires?

Spoon fed information for the masses.

JeremySmith · 16 Apr 2011, 19:33 (Ref:2864404)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Spoon fed information for the masses.

I agree it is so unnecessary, do we need to know what compound they are running?

Give the teams tyres that they can *race* on without the constant yick yack about preserving the rubber..

Marbot · 17 Apr 2011, 09:22 (Ref:2864871)

Sorry. But if they'd have been on last seasons Bridgestones, that race would have been dead boring. We even got a "Thank-you-Pirelli!" from Coulthard, of all people.

As for the tyre markings - Deal With It.

Knowlesy · 17 Apr 2011, 09:30 (Ref:2864885)

Deal with it indeed.

I followed the last hour and a bit purely on forums and timing. It sounded a lot better than Malaysia. Although the amount of stops still is a sticking point.

Whatever, can't wait to get home and watch the rest (after Talladega of course).

Gerben24 · 17 Apr 2011, 09:52 (Ref:2864924)

The drop off of the tyres iz to big imho. You're a sitting duck according to JB if somebody behind you has new tyres. It makes overtaking to easy.

Looking at BBC's summary of lewis his overtakes, it wAs only the move on jenson, which was purely on talent. All the other moves were because off beter tyres. Well done to mcl by the way and well done lh.

Looks like nowadays U require more skill in the lower classes to pull off a overtaking move.

ralf fan · 17 Apr 2011, 13:40 (Ref:2865045)

Seems like grid position doesn't matter at all.

Infact Webber probably had the best strategy of all. Start 18th but have several extra sets of fresh tires.

Marbot · 17 Apr 2011, 13:53 (Ref:2865051)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralf fan

Seems like grid position doesn't matter at all.

Infact Webber probably had the best strategy of all. Start 18th but have several extra sets of fresh tires.

Indeed. We will probably see more drivers just going for one run in Q3 if they need all of their pit stop tyres to be fresh for the race.

Qualifying will still mean something at some races, like Monaco etc.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 17 Apr 2011, 14:14 (Ref:2865061)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralf fan

Seems like grid position doesn't matter at all.

Infact Webber probably had the best strategy of all. Start 18th but have several extra sets of fresh tires.

His drive reminded me of John Watson who came from the back of the grid to win the Detroit GP and Long Beach GP. The Long Beach GP is today.

JeremySmith · 17 Apr 2011, 16:37 (Ref:2865130)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Sorry. But if they'd have been on last seasons Bridgestones, that race would have been dead boring. We even got a "Thank-you-Pirelli!" from Coulthard, of all people.

As for the tyre markings - Deal With It.

I am fine with the sidewall markings, the stripes I don't care for to be honest..

And a huge thank you to Pirelli you make great tyres, are you happy now..

Marbot · 17 Apr 2011, 16:45 (Ref:2865133)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I am fine with the sidewall markings, the stripes I don't care for to be honest..

There are going to be further tweaks for the next race. Hopefully Pirelli can find a more obvious colour contrast for each tyre compound without having to use stripes. Maybe just colours for Prime and Option would be better?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

And a huge thank you to Pirelli you make great tyres, are you happy now..

They make tyres that do the job that was asked of them. Which is all that any tyre manufacturer can be expected to do.

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