Renault Dismiss Flav and Pat or Oh dear… Here comes trouble

[ghinzani]

Originally Posted by Marbot

IIRC a driver,not too long ago,got caught in the head by flying debris.Now if Piquet is somehow capable of controlling the trajectory of flying debris,then fair play to him.

Good point, maybe they could have got Uri Geller in the car instead!

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by ghinzani

Good point, maybe they could have got Uri Geller in the car instead!

Uri Geller was said to have been seen "fiddling about" in the Ferrari garage on that particular day.

[duke_toaster]

You mean with the cutlery? How did they stir their coffee?

[foreversideways]

I am not condoning their misdemeanours, but cheating of some sort or another has been going on since people started racing cars. Even the much loved and missed Ken Tyrrell was it it at one time. Who knows how many other drivers have been instructed to crash over the history of the sport. The only difference now is that F1 is in the public spotlight as never before and all over the world, So are the corporations who either own or sponsor the teams and these corporations jealously guard against damage to their reputations. However as well as this, winning for the manufacturers has also become an exercise in reputation. It's so important that poor performance or humiliation on the track can reflect in poor sales at the showrooms. The stakes are high and it's easy to see how people slip into making these mistakes.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

You mean with the cutlery? How did they stir their coffee?

Allegedly he took a particular interest in the fuel rigs.

And Ferrari mechanics always stir their coffee with whatever they happen to be holding at the time.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by foreversideways

The stakes are high and it's easy to see how people slip into making these mistakes.

Indeed.Are the stakes now too high,as they maybe in other sports?

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

My view too,safety car and yellow flag manipulation are used in other forms motorsport and if you look underneath a few more rocks you'll find Renault aren't the only F1 offenders.Will be interesting to see if any of the other glasshouse dewellers start throwing stones....

I'm with Armco Bender and Mak on this.

It goes on all the time in motorsport at all levels. The outside of the cup looks sparkly clean but the inside has all sorts of grime in it you don't see until you start drinking from it...

Renault will now probably still be here next year but Flavio and Symonds will not be a part of it....

If the Pitpass report is true renault is in damage control and has a former associate of the team in its Benetton incarnation ready to step into Flavs shoes.

In fact if you look at Flav's record as far back as 92/93 he has always been someone who had little respect for the traditions or history of the sport and simply treated F1 as a poker game he could play, using whatever tactics he could to win, on personal level and on a corproate level.

Many regarded him as a breath of fresh air to the traditional idea of a team manager but 'fresh' air wasn't all he brought with him.....

Some may see this as a 'cleaning out' (or a 'spring clean' before Ari or Jean take up residence at the FIA) before the new order takes over but we'll see. Look out for a few more glass panels to break before the end of the season, there might be a bit more stone throwing going on....

[Tim 27]

Originally Posted by Tim 27

I take it the request would have been coded, which also means that the scenario would have been discussed beforehand.

Sorry to repeat this, but still can't get my head around the fact that Piquet's instruction would have been premeditated, but from when? Before the start at Singapore? Before the season started? With the team knowing that radio transmissions are listened to and can be re-heard, it's clear the instruction wouldn't have been along the lines of "Nelson, you can crash NOW"!

[Hazard]

I've just found this in the 2008 Singapore thread, posted 28th Sept 2008.

Brilliant sentence from craigd, just reads so much funnier now. No one was actually duped last year - though Ferrari's pitstop messes kinda stole all the headlines.

Originally Posted by craigd

With these SC rules i'm starting to think tactics could be taken to a whole new level! Teams (especially the lower runners) should conspire each race to set one of their drivers to be Mr Kamikaze! Every race just plan it so that the lead car pits earlier than what is predicted for the rest, tank it up with fuel, then with their other driver issue the 'code' word and have em smash himself to bits as spectacularly as possible! The rest of the field then gets raped by the SC and if the conspiring team are uber fortunate they also get the bonus of other drivers suffering stop go's also. Meanwhile the team-mate of Mr Kamikaze zooms into the lead and a good result, if not a win, is almost guaranteed, with the end result almost certainly far better than if the team had just plodded along as normal and finished 14th and 16th or something as per.

It might sound mental but I can't see what's so crazy about it.I think it's a winner. After all, if we have crazy rules, why not crazy tactics!?

link: http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=181

[JackN]

Personally, I am really dissapointed in Pat Symonds. We all knew Flav was a cheating whatsit, but i expected more from Pat. I think Renault should be kicked out of F1 and replaced with Sauber or something, there is no place in formula 1 for this. We have seen in the past months how dangerous motorsport is and crashing deliberatley is shocking.

If Mclaren got fined €150 Million for swapping a few floppy discs, Renault must be banned from F1.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Yeah, I think that good old mate Livio has hit the sport there...
One can't be sure, but Briatore might get out of this unscathed


If I was Junior, I would do a "Pedro Diniz", go back home, get hold of one of Dad's millionaire business and spend with lots of "wannabe models" that are available everywhere in that country... you never can get enough of that. And forget about F1 for good.

Bononi, I read somewhere on this forum that you are a moderator;

Not for the first time do I think that, for a moderator, you express some fairly strong personal opinions and preferences within the threads of this forum. Is that quite the correct position to adopt, as a moderator? Or should you be keeping your strong personal - and in some cases heavily biased and not necessarily accurate or well informed opinions - to yourself?

Rather than feeding the frenzy by expressing extreme views, shouldn't a moderator be sitting somehwere on the fence - rather than at one extreme of a debate or the other?

[rayburn]

Originally Posted by phoenix

Bononi, I read somewhere on this forum that you are a moderator;

Not for the first time do I think that, for a moderator, you express some fairly strong personal opinions and preferences within the threads of this forum. Is that quite the correct position to adopt, as a moderator? Or should you be keeping your strong personal - and in some cases heavily biased and not necessarily accurate or well informed opinions - to yourself?

Rather than feeding the frenzy by expressing extreme views, shouldn't a moderator be sitting somehwere on the fence - rather than at one extreme of a debate or the other?

Hear, hear!

[Teretonga]

I always thought moderators were just like us but had taken on a responsibility to assist in keeping the conversation seemly and caution those who broke the rules about the consequences.

I don't think being a moderator means you need to keep your opinions to yourself.
The moderator is moderating the forum site, not chairing the discussion.

[scoobiesnoop]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

....It goes on all the time in motorsport at all levels. The outside of the cup looks sparkly clean but the inside has all sorts of grime in it you don't see until you start drinking from it...

Yeah but I guess its the old rule, - it aint cheating until you get caught!! Lets face it Renault have as good as admitted that they have cheated under the leadership of Flav and Pat so they really just have to wait and see what incredibly HUGE fine they will receive before they put the team up for sale. Lets not be under any illusion that they wont be forced to leave due to the financial burden of a fine (plus they'll probably be disqualified from the 08 season and maybe the 09 season) becaue they will have no option! But here's a scenario for you. What if Dave Richards takes over from the flav and then Renault decide to sell the team. Who has a team in waiting and would love to bring in erm I dunno say, erm Pro drive?? Remember Dave has already managed Benetton prior to his BAR time so it would make perfect sense. He gets his F1 team and Renault have a great escape route with little pain! (Well maybe a little) worth thinking about

[Adam43]

Please keep to topic, this is not a thread for discussion what a mod is. Lets stick to the Renault story.
If you have a query about the moderation of 10-10ths then feel free to contact that mod, another mod or admin. However do not derail the discussion for others.

Mods are allowed to have views, which can be strong views too, as anyone user can. Mods have no commitment to sit on the fence. They would have a sore bum by now.

And on that note:
It looks like Flav. might have asked for some outrageous cheating.
Piquet comes across as a world champion whinger.
Max seems to delight in persecuting others.
Cheers, Adam (mod).

[gttouring]

this story is nuts- they quit or get booted from Renault?
and what's the difference after this season ING leaves renault so no sponsor money little renault.. i don't think so- go out on fire, come back reborn and fresh and underdog team trying to correct the sins of the father, it will only look better.
Flav...well what has he been playing at?
and Piquet jr. has just exposed himself as a possible tattler and untrustworthy team player, so his career is so over in almost any racing i would think he could n't get a job. not that he needs the money really, but this is tops in buffoonery
all teams issue orders, but this is inexcusable he did n't have to crash, he could have taken someone with him or made it look better. i am perplexed at Piquet's Eichmann move of 'just following orders' at Renault not contesting... it is their word against a sloppy for F1 whining ex-driver. why wouldn't they contest the accusation.
oh flavio is alonsos manager- alonso can go to Ferrari but ferrari won't pay the buy out of contract, no renault no contract- flavio signs him for 15% and every one make lotsa money and ferrari have a 2 WDC stable
egads!

[numbersix]

I wonder if Renault will change their car ads:

Nicole: "Papa! Shall I crash ze Clio and claim ze insurance money today?"

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by numbersix

I wonder if Renault will change their car ads:

Nicole: "Papa! Shall I crash ze Clio and claim ze insurance money today?"

If Nicole injures herself in so doing, I hereby volunteer to massage it better. You know how tricky airbags can be.

[TheMong]

so who will take the places of these 2 legends of f1

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by TheMong

so who will take the places of these 2 legends of f1

Which legends? Nicole's?

[parkingjedi]

Piquet's statement

sorry if this has been posted already, I didnt see it.

[Trev Campbell]

I've got to admit I didn't see it coming. When the accusations came out, I just thought it was another part of Piquet's massive dummy spit at being dropped.

I find it hard to fathom a team ordering a driver to crash, even though I know the stakes to win are now extremely high.

I find it even harder to fathom what sort of self respecting driver would follow such a ludicrous order. That is just staggering the the guy didn't just finish the race and say 'Bugger You' I don't crash on purpose for anyone.

Having said that, going on his past form maybe he figured he was going to crash at some stage through the race anyway he might as well do it on purpose for the benefit of the team instead of ruining a car for nothing.

So in summary
Piquet: Stupid for following (or possibly suggesting) an order to crash

Flav & Symonds: Stupid for ordering a driver to crash to rig a race, even stupider to dismiss a driver who has got dirt on you fo doing the wrong thing

[v8fan]

I'm absolutely disgusted at the 3 of them and believe that they should all be banned for life from any further involvement in anything F1. I live in Australia so have had to put up with watching during the sleeping hours, even getting up at 3am to catch races in the America's, and still have barely missed a race during the last 15-20 years. For the first time I feel that the sport is not worth watching. This is the weight that these cheats now have to bear, the deliberate cheapening of this great sport for those who love it. Be gone with the cheats for ever more, they do not deserve the privelige of being involved.

[TheMong]

Originally Posted by v8fan

I'm absolutely disgusted at the 3 of them and believe that they should all be banned for life from any further involvement in anything F1. I live in Australia so have had to put up with watching during the sleeping hours, even getting up at 3am to catch races in the America's, and still have barely missed a race during the last 15-20 years. For the first time I feel that the sport is not worth watching. This is the weight that these cheats now have to bear, the deliberate cheapening of this great sport for those who love it. Be gone with the cheats for ever more, they do not deserve the privelige of being involved.

i must admit it is hard to stay loyal to f1 especially this year...

[ghinzani]

Originally Posted by ensign14

If Nicole injures herself in so doing, I hereby volunteer to massage it better. You know how tricky airbags can be.

Your living in the past Ensign, quit living in the past - contemporise maaaaan! She must be 50 by now, or sagging just a little bit anyway.