Toyota/Rebellion Racing - Le Mans/ILMC/LMS - 2011 (merged)

[TF110]

All and none of the above it seems. I do hope some serious info comes forward, but why enter something where there is little equivalence? I guess if rebellion does well, they might consider LeMans as a factory effort, but who knows, unless you're a Toyota insider.

[gwyllion]

Maybe TMG was looking for something to keep their staff busy. What better way than to transform an existing engine into a LMP1 power plant?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Plenty. Ever since Toyota stop their F1 activities, there has been rumors/wishfull thinking about Toyota returning to Le Mans ... or to WRC ... or joining WTCC ... or DTM

Well, WRC and WTCC has been confirmed . (with the new 1.6 Turbo engine)
DTM automatically with the new DTM and SuperGT regs. that make the cars equal (so Toyota can run DTM if they want to, without building a new car).

So all we need is the Le Mans project

[TF110]

Isn't the Avensis in the touring car? I donno what they'll run if they do WRC, but SuperGT/DTM- what car is the only question. As for rebellion, hopefully they find some more speed and are closer to the disels, or at least as fast as the pescarolos!

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Whether it's "Toyota" or "Toyota Motorsports" on the cam cover (my photos from Sebring show Toyota Motorsports), point is, it isn't TMG and ultimately that's not hiding anything anyway.

Still, you need to have good eyes to read the "Toyota" logo on the cam cover: http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/galle...60-Toyota.html

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Still, you need to have good eyes to read the "Toyota" logo on the cam cover: http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/galle...60-Toyota.html

Exactly there is a very big difference between trying to fool someone like Mike and how you present yourself to the general public. They simply will not register TMG has anything to do with Toyota.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Exactly there is a very big difference between trying to fool someone like Mike and how you present yourself to the general public. They simply will not register TMG has anything to do with Toyota.

Except if you read the entry list and it says Rebellion Racing Lola B10/60 Toyota. Toyota isn't hiding their involvement like everyone here seems to think. TMG on the engine cover, Toyota on the entry list, Toyota Motorsports on the cam covers. Yeah, that's being discrete.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by TF110

Isn't the Avensis in the touring car? I donno what they'll run if they do WRC, but SuperGT/DTM- what car is the only question. As for rebellion, hopefully they find some more speed and are closer to the disels, or at least as fast as the pescarolos!

Yes Avensis for the British Touring Car Championship.
I believe it's the Auris for WTCC and WRC.
The Corolla is in the Super GT (and a new GT500 will come soon i think)

[Simmi]

Sorry the relevance of all this has passed me by. I don't think the BTCC car has a single thing to do with Toyota apart from being a base car for the new regs.

I might have missed it but I haven't seen any credible rumours of WRC/WTCC programmes either?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Sorry the relevance of all this has passed me by. I don't think the BTCC car has a single thing to do with Toyota apart from being a base car for the new regs.

I might have missed it but I haven't seen any credible rumours of WRC/WTCC programmes either?

The reason for this, was because it was mentioned that Toyota was rumored in WRC, Touring Cars, and Le Mans, where as i pointed out that WRC and Touring cars already was confirmed, and therefor Le Mans could come soon .

I can't find the official confirmation, but this come very close:
http://www.motorstv.com/car/rally/wr...allying-return

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Sorry the relevance of all this has passed me by. I don't think the BTCC car has a single thing to do with Toyota apart from being a base car for the new regs.

I might have missed it but I haven't seen any credible rumours of WRC/WTCC programmes either?

Toyota has financed the developement of a Toyota-specific engine for BTCC instead of forcing teams to pay for it themselves or putting the generic TOCA-engine into the Toyotas... so there is a little bit of involvement there, but so far nothing too significant.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by CTD

I can't find the official confirmation, but this come very close:
http://www.motorstv.com/car/rally/wr...allying-return

You won't be able to find any because it hasn't been confirmed. I hope you are right though. Le Mans and WRC would be my preferred combo like 98/99!

[TF110]

If they have the success of the 98/99 years (LeMans in particular) it'll be great. Just come back with a LMP1 Coupe Toyota, with the expertise of Toyota and the money, maybe then we'll finally have someone able to dethrone the Diesels, unless they want Honda to beat them to the punch!

[Félix]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Sam Collins reports through http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsmarch11.html

This one seems better informed: http://86400.fr/articles/154-les-nou...ion-en-details

It says the money for the evolutions came from Rebellion alone, and then designed/built (réalisé) by Lola based on Rebellion's set of specifications (cahier de charge). Another team could buy the new parts for its car and split the cost for the tooling. The evolution had been planned and designed (étudié) in 2010 but funding was only secured in December 2010, making it too late to have the parts ready for the start of the season. It was the car's first test with that configuration.

It also says the front suspension is all new and uses different pickup points. The tub didn't have to be rehomologated since the it was planned and homologated with multiple possibilities. The car's wheelbase is now longer, with benefits for tire exploitation, notably for durability.

[cdsvg]

If I am interpreting what I heard on RLM correctly, then it would seem the blue area highlighted can be removed for a high-downforce spec, resulting in something like the R10 or 908 (sprint version) with airflow passing both over and under the upper wishbones.

[gustavobamba]

Recent tests at Le Mans and the provision of some teams, including the Rebellion Toyota made ​​me elaborate this view that I share with you now and I want to comment:

If I were an official of the Toyota team and it is thought coldly on the "gift" ACO give to HPD LMP2 what would I do??
How about pressing the same ACO with a vast difference of 10 seconds for cars from Audi and Peugeot in tests and say that the equivalence is still worse than in the past!
I seriously believe that Toyota is preparing, in every way, to join the official level with a hybrid powertrain. However given current regulations so it is impossible, however, and "hiding" behind the Rebellion prepare the ground for that future rules balance benefit more the hibrid powertrain´s.
The growing threat of Honda (HPD) has been stealthily that Toyota is in a intensive test program development of its V8 engine and aerodynamic packages that are only available for the Rebellion, why is only Rebellion and not the other Lola teams?????
While the ACO is pleased to have a duel AUDI vs PEUGEOT, TOYOTA will remain "glued" to a private team in constant developments to be sure that if the rules change, he can fight for overall victory and not only be the best gasoline car.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

Recent tests at Le Mans and the provision of some teams, including the Rebellion Toyota made ​​me elaborate this view that I share with you now and I want to comment:

If I were an official of the Toyota team and it is thought coldly on the "gift" ACO give to HPD LMP2 what would I do??
How about pressing the same ACO with a vast difference of 10 seconds for cars from Audi and Peugeot in tests and say that the equivalence is still worse than in the past!
I seriously believe that Toyota is preparing, in every way, to join the official level with a hybrid powertrain. However given current regulations so it is impossible, however, and "hiding" behind the Rebellion prepare the ground for that future rules balance benefit more the hibrid powertrain´s.
The growing threat of Honda (HPD) has been stealthily that Toyota is in a intensive test program development of its V8 engine and aerodynamic packages that are only available for the Rebellion, why is only Rebellion and not the other Lola teams?????
While the ACO is pleased to have a duel AUDI vs PEUGEOT, TOYOTA will remain "glued" to a private team in constant developments to be sure that if the rules change, he can fight for overall victory and not only be the best gasoline car.

I'm sorry, but Rebellion and the current Toyota engine isn't good enough for them to really be a valid measuring stick. The Highcroft HPD was two seconds quicker at Sebring in the race, the Cytosport Lola Aston one second quicker. An old Pesca-Judd faster than them at the tests.

Perhaps the regs still aren't equal, but none of the above mentioned cars are maximized for the rules, nor do they have the testing and development that the diesels do. Really the fastest of any of these petrol cars should be about 6-7 seconds behind the diesels, just based on the designs.... I'll bet that is about where you'll find the fastest petrols come qualifying...

[JAG]

The more I read PR from Rebellion, Pescarolo etc. the more I think they're playing politics just as much as Audi and Peugeot.

Highcroft say the difference between the HPD and R18 in private testing at Sebring equates to six seconds at Le Mans. When RLM interviewed Rebellion at the test day they were questioned if their pace was dissapointing but made it clear they were running through a test program, now the ten second pace difference is given as evidence for eqivalency mistakes.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by JAG

The more I read PR from Rebellion, Pescarolo etc. the more I think they're playing politics just as much as Audi and Peugeot.

Highcroft say the difference between the HPD and R18 in private testing at Sebring equates to six seconds at Le Mans. When RLM interviewed Rebellion at the test day they were questioned if their pace was dissapointing but made it clear they were running through a test program, now the ten second pace difference is given as evidence for eqivalency mistakes.

Exactly, it was the first time Rebellion ran the updated car with new suspension, tires, and aero, so they were just trying to figure it out. That being said, Highcroft had the same situation at Sebring and ran well with their new package.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by joeb

Exactly, it was the first time Rebellion ran the updated car with new suspension, tires, and aero, so they were just trying to figure it out. That being said, Highcroft had the same situation at Sebring and ran well with their new package.

Yes, Highcroft ran well, but still not optimally. Brabhham mentioned to me there still was a lot of work to be done looking at tire compounds. And while the 908 and R18 have done 1000s of test miles and are much further along in their programs than Rebellion, the Test weekend was even their first time at Le Mans and thus even they weren't at their optimal pace/setup. The diesels will have even more pace come the race weekend and it won't be enough for the gas powered cars to match the diesel's Test weekend pace (if they even can).

[TF110]

I think it'll take a factory effort with money and resources to challenge the diesels. Whether Toyota does this is the thing I'm most interested in. And if Rebellion are their good side, they may be the team that gets factory support? I'm guessing here but I think this may end up being the case.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by TF110

I think it'll take a factory effort with money and resources to challenge the diesels. Whether Toyota does this is the thing I'm most interested in. And if Rebellion are their good side, they may be the team that gets factory support? I'm guessing here but I think this may end up being the case.

Yeah you'd like to think Rebellion would get cars a year later or a fourth entry alongside the works team.

[The Badger]

As I have said before , manufacturers should be made to supply another privateer team at a reasonable cost .

It can only be good for the sport .

[JAG]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Yes, Highcroft ran well, but still not optimally. Brabhham mentioned to me there still was a lot of work to be done looking at tire compounds. And while the 908 and R18 have done 1000s of test miles and are much further along in their programs than Rebellion, the Test weekend was even their first time at Le Mans and thus even they weren't at their optimal pace/setup. The diesels will have even more pace come the race weekend and it won't be enough for the gas powered cars to match the diesel's Test weekend pace (if they even can).

In Autosport Pescarolo says he believes diesels will get down to 3.24 in qualifying, and goes on to say his car was losing six seconds in sector two from Tertre Rouge to Mulsannes Corner.

Article 19 says the difference between powertrains should be no more thant 2%, which equates to four seconds at Le Mans. The ACO will hold a meeting on May 7th after Spa, and Pescarolo believe adjustments will be made.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

In Autosport Pescarolo says he believes diesels will get down to 3.24 in qualifying, and goes on to say his car was losing six seconds in sector two from Tertre Rouge to Mulsannes Corner.

Article 19 says the difference between powertrains should be no more thant 2%, which equates to four seconds at Le Mans. The ACO will hold a meeting on May 7th after Spa, and Pescarolo believe adjustments will be made.

Perhaps... but then the fastest of these petrols really should be about 6 seconds behind... so that would suggest Highcroft at about 3:30 would be about right. IMO.