[BTCC] BTCC 2020 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[AmD Tuning]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Aye, it's wide open to the elements, and if the wind is North or North Easterly then even a hardened northerner or Scotsman will feel the chill. The gentlemen of a Southern persuasion will need woolly hats and mittens!

I do not believe the calendar is viable, period. I'm sure the big outfits like WSR and Dynamics would be able to manage the schedule - and then probably at a push - but how realistic is it a relative minnow like AmD could cope? The Moffats would not be able to return to Scotland and back in those times; the guys could fly but the cars wouldn't be able to return, be serviced and be back for the next meeting - and I'm meaning in best case scenario where the cars require no significant work. Maybe the facilities at the farm would be called upon? (Assuming that is still a functional workshop).

As has been said by many, where will the teams budgets come from? Hospitality for sponsors is a big thing for many teams - will the TV exposure cut it from a satisfying the sponsors point of view?

Guess we'll see...

Be interesting for a team owner perspective, I've only seen BTCC statements, no team comment yet.

Mr H - is this do-able? Would it take staff from the rest of the business? Then again, when will the rest of the business be back to "normal"? In the realms of guesswork I think.

Anyway, more pressing matters: "Gis a job!"

Hi, its going to be hard work and from our perspective the hospitality is important.

AmD Tuning has been open but on a reduced staff as we're a garage and mail order business so "encouraged" to be open.

The race team and some staff have been furloughed until probably the end of June.

I think the August date was specifically chosen because it SHOULD mean that hospitality and spectators will be allowed however nobody knows this for sure until the govt decides.

The "news" that the Premier League could be concluded with games being played in June is a promising sign?

My honest answer is we have to plan for this best case scenario, which I think will happen, as I think the worst case scenario of "no racing" is now no longer the case.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Lowest number of meetings since 1986.

[Alfisti]

Thanks Shaun

I'm now of the thought train that we will get some meetings, maybe no or very few spectators, spread thinly around the track. Every third seat in a grandstand maybe for distancing.

Maybe less guys working per car too. If that is true then a small shunt or mech/ elec issue that would normally be repairable between races may be a weekend finisher.

Dick Bennets has spoken to Autosport and raised the obvious points a big accident with the tightly packed schedule will potentially put a driver out of some meetings as a car would not be repairable in time. Sounds like he's thinking seriously about getting another shell made up, but that's an expense that I guess isn't financially viable for many.

Dicks also raised the point that Knockhill is the week after Oulton, so no chance of a return to base between events.

Obviously NASCAR races back to back weekends, but bigger budgets by a huge amount and a top team like Gibbs has six fully (or near fully) prepped cars for each of their drivers. Plus guys in house who can build a new one from scratch in a few weeks. Very different to BTCC but May 17th is provisionally on for a behind closed doors race at Darlington. Given America is as badly, or possibly more, hit than us by the virus I see this going ahead or not as an acid test for UK events.

[Moneyseeker]

I though the August date was chosen due to the BGP running two races potentially 19/26 July and the need for marshalls, not because TOCA thought spectators will be allowed by then.

Reports today that the UK lockdown will be extended to June, I can't see we will go from lockdown to 30,000 spectators allowed at an event in 8 weeks?

[kipper]

Originally Posted by RS67

You are still ignoring the fact that the circumstances we are experiencing globally now are unlike anything we have ever experienced before. Rewriting the rule books is just as likely as every day life not being able to continue the same again.

Not ignoring the fact that things will change (and indeed, in many ways, have already done so on a permanent basis). However, I'm really not convinced that the FIA and Motorsport UK will re-write the rule book to such an extent that one can run a race meeting without any means of communicating to drivers, scrutineering or medical cover.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Thanks Shaun

Obviously NASCAR races back to back weekends, but bigger budgets by a huge amount and a top team like Gibbs has six fully (or near fully) prepped cars for each of their drivers. Plus guys in house who can build a new one from scratch in a few weeks. Very different to BTCC but May 17th is provisionally on for a behind closed doors race at Darlington. Given America is as badly, or possibly more, hit than us by the virus I see this going ahead or not as an acid test for UK events.

NASCAR do have multiple cars but they are specialist builds. Road course, Speedway, Super Speedway , A Charlotte car ( yes really!)? , plus others. In the Good old days I hear there was a round at Oulton on Good Friday and a round at Brands on Easter Monday!

[S griffin]

I think it might have been Thruxton on Easter Monday, to go with the F2 race there

[medius]

If any btcc meeting is allowed to have spectators you'll see 20k turn up. It'll be heaving. No matter if its restricted by social distancing to ticket only, a considerable amount of numptys will try and pay on the gate.

[S griffin]

Gow's only looking at doing it behind closed doors for the first few meetings

[touringlegend]

Hungarian GP the same weekend is going to be behind closed doors as the government has banned gatherings over 500 the same weekend. I can’t see Donington being any different.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by kipper

I'm really not convinced that the FIA and Motorsport UK will re-write the rule book to such an extent that one can run a race meeting without any means of communicating to drivers, scrutineering or medical cover.

No one has suggested that at all. Other motorsport events, at the exact same tracks, manage to run with much lower manpower coverage. If you have been to a BTCC meeting on a Saturday, have you ever noticed there is nowhere near the number of Marshall's as you will see on a Sunday? Some meetings it looks as though the number has multiplied 2 or 3 times.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Maybe less guys working per car too.

I don't see a problem here if they are wearing PPE, such as masks, glasses and or face shields and using hand sanitiser. A little more expense for the teams or the team members, but certainly doable if they have to work without social distancing.

[S griffin]

I am sure the safety of the crews will be a top priority for those involved

[kipper]

Originally Posted by RS67

No one has suggested that at all. Other motorsport events, at the exact same tracks, manage to run with much lower manpower coverage. If you have been to a BTCC meeting on a Saturday, have you ever noticed there is nowhere near the number of Marshall's as you will see on a Sunday? Some meetings it looks as though the number has multiplied 2 or 3 times.

I think the initial area of debate may have become a bit clouded. The initial area of debate was whether FIA/Motorsport UK sanctioned Motorsports could take place on a Friday. I suggested that this may be difficult owing to the numbers of people required, the potential number of events that could take place on Fridays towards the end of the year and potential changes in availability and income may make it challenging to get a full quota of marshals and other officials.

I am aware that events generally attract more marshals on a Sunday when compared to a Saturday. This is consistent with pretty much every event I've worked at and in a variety of countries. However, even the most unattractive club meeting held in the most appalling weather will require notably more marshals and officials than any test day. Some circuits run test days with a staff that can be counted on one's fingers.

Therefore, regardless of any changes in working patterns, I can't see any governing body relaxing their standards to the extent one can run a race meeting with a level of marshals, officials and medical cover consistent with a test day.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by kipper

I think the initial area of debate may have become a bit clouded. The initial area of debate was whether FIA/Motorsport UK sanctioned Motorsports could take place on a Friday. I suggested that this may be difficult owing to the numbers of people required, the potential number of events that could take place on Fridays towards the end of the year and potential changes in availability and income may make it challenging to get a full quota of marshals and other officials.

I am aware that events generally attract more marshals on a Sunday when compared to a Saturday. This is consistent with pretty much every event I've worked at and in a variety of countries. However, even the most unattractive club meeting held in the most appalling weather will require notably more marshals and officials than any test day. Some circuits run test days with a staff that can be counted on one's fingers.

Therefore, regardless of any changes in working patterns, I can't see any governing body relaxing their standards to the extent one can run a race meeting with a level of marshals, officials and medical cover consistent with a test day.

But it would only be Free Practice that takes place on the Friday. Free Practice is just testing, so manning levels wouldn't need to differ.

[S griffin]

I always thought that Friday was used to for practice, wasn’t sure if it was the BTCC or the support races

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by RS67

But it would only be Free Practice that takes place on the Friday. Free Practice is just testing, so manning levels wouldn't need to differ.

Free practice is very different to testing.

But as has been said, there won't be any free practice on Fridays, as there is no need for it.

Timetables will be just like you'd normally see, but with an earlier finish.

[kipper]

M

Originally Posted by RS67

But it would only be Free Practice that takes place on the Friday. Free Practice is just testing, so manning levels wouldn't need to differ.

As was discussed numerous posts ago, free practice and testing are not synonyms. A test session is organised directly between competitor and circuit and, within reason, can have as much marshal, medical and other cover as the competitior is prepared to pay for. Cars also do not need to be scrutineered.

A free practice session forms part of a race meeting. Whilst potentially similar to a test session it is sanctioned by Motorsport UK and the FIA. In consequence, it has to run to their standards of marshalling, official cover and medical cover. Neither the Blue Book or International Sporting Code vary the standards for the type of session. In consequence, the minimum standards are the same for a free practice session, qualifying session, warm up or race. Of course, clubs can (if available) exceed these minimum requirements - and often do for parts of a meeting - but they can't go below them.

Therefore it is simply not possible to run any part of a race meeting with the handful of staff that run most test sessions.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by sceptic

Free practice is very different to testing.

But as has been said, there won't be any free practice on Fridays, as there is no need for it.

Timetables will be just like you'd normally see, but with an earlier finish.

Perhaps you ought to check TSL Timing, you can see all the Free Practice times for each support series on the Friday of each race weekend.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by RS67

Perhaps you ought to check TSL Timing, you can see all the Free Practice times for each support series on the Friday of each race weekend.

No you can’t because the support race teams are all busy testing on the Friday.

And has been said many times now testing is very, very different to free practice. Different tyre allocation and no scrutineering to name just two fundamental differences.

You can keep saying it’s the same, but unfortunately that won’t make it so!

[RS67]

Originally Posted by peebee2

No you can’t because the support race teams are all busy testing on the Friday.

And has been said many times now testing is very, very different to free practice. Different tyre allocation and no scrutineering to name just two fundamental differences.

You can keep saying it’s the same, but unfortunately that won’t make it so!

Have you even looked on TSL timing?
It lists all their Free Pactice times. They have been doing it on every Friday on a race weekend for years. For example
F4 FP1 and FP2 times Friday 5th April 2019
https://www.tsl-timing.com/file/?f=TOCA/2019/191441bf4.pdf

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by RS67

Have you even looked on TSL timing?
It lists all their Free Pactice times. They have been doing it on every Friday on a race weekend for years. For example
F4 FP1 and FP2 times Friday 5th April 2019
https://www.tsl-timing.com/file/?f=T.../191441bf4.pdf

LOL, good spot. Nice try, but:

Look at the title page where it is headed “Official Test.”
They just call it FP1 etc. to make it easier.

The big clue should be that if it is official practice it is part of the meeting and thus the results would be on the meeting results page, and not on a separate testing results page.

I realise they could change to incorporate Fridays into the permitted race meeting but others more qualified than me have explained above why that would be very difficult to do - for example as a lot of the personnel required simply can’t get there before Friday night, and also it makes the costs a lot more.

[Adam43]

This is an important internet battle to win. Good luck everyone.

[/subtlemodhint]

[bella]

https://xkcd.com/386/

please have a word with yourselves folks. you're putting everyone off the btcc quite nicely here...

[Peter Mallett]

Cabin fever.