2007 Team & Driver Line-up

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Indycool

The truth is that the TV deal might provide the platform over time, but it isn't a "microwave."

Exactly I believe David Phillips wrote a similar thing in that a new tv deal is a good step but untill we see the benefits of it, before sponsors are going to jump on.

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

The average viewer would not know the difference between the Lola and a Penske, let alone the DP-01.

No, but if the Panoz with all its new design features built around street racing can add closer racing with more overtaking then I think they might notice the difference.

[indycool]

Yes, D.R.T., that's a big "if." Narrow, slow street courses with concrete on both sides are more likely to create more contact than close racing and more yellows. In addition, the same well-prepared teams will be the same well-prepared teams. That's not gonna change. And I doubt that Bourdais is shaking in his shoes that Gommendy is going to go wheel-to-wheel with him.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by indycool

Yes, D.R.T., that's a big "if."

Wouldnt it be the same if as it was when the car was designed ?

Originally Posted by indycool

Narrow, slow street courses with concrete on both sides are more likely to create more contact than close racing and more yellows.

Potentially but reluctantly i'd take close racing with yellows then strung out racing with no yellows.

Another good move that should lead to less yellows will be the on board starters this year, so that should help.

Originally Posted by indycool

In addition, the same well-prepared teams will be the same well-prepared teams.

As it is with most series. But thankyou for such blinding insight.

In other news, it is being reported that Nicky Pastorelli could line up in a 3rd Team Australia car (more likely a Walker move than a Gore).

Not an English link but someone should know how to translate it via another site http://www.telesport.nl/autosport/13...lia.html?p=2,1

[fazzaz]

Originally Posted by indycool

...And I doubt that Bourdais is shaking in his shoes that Gommendy is going to go wheel-to-wheel with him.

Actually, Bourdais may be....

[Snrub]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

. That is why I believe that the focus is to make this a profitable sideline for KK/GF. String together some franchisees and get the cash flowing. If you own the promotion rights, the cars and the series you can maximize revenue.

I'm having trouble making sense of that. Even if one looked at what they've spent and will spend on the series until it's profitable, it's never going to pay off all the money they've put into it. Perhaps it could be explained how such a theory might work in practice.

Here's how I look at it: Let's say the series makes $5M/year starting in 2009 (fat chance) and let's say that the owners have spend $30M/year in 2004-2008 including their own team costs. That's $150M and they made a 3.3% annual return. If you're a pensioner with a finite lifespan maybe you'd be okay with a 3.3% return in a 100% guarentied GIC or gov't bond, but why would you take a big risk to get it?

As for Roger Penske, he may make good money out of racing, but that's not what made him a billionaire. He shows up to far too many of the races. If it was purely a business matter he wouldn't because he would divide his time based on where his presence was needed to make more money. He does it because he likes it.

[Mystery]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Another good move that should lead to less yellows will be the on board starters this year, so that should help.

Not convinced about that one. Surely with most of the races on streets as soon as someone spins the yellow's coming out no questions asked. On road circuits you may well be right.

Snrub re KK/GF's motives - I agree that they can't be expecting to turn the series into a profitable one and hope that they recoup all of their losses. It just isn't realistic given the money already washed away. But I am concerned that they are trying to struggle through this season as best they can without spending anything extra and hope that either a favourable merger is agreed or the big sponsorship deal arrives. Anything except shut the series down which would mean a very public expensive failure for them. And to be fair, I'll give credit where its due and say they did put their money where their mouths were when the series needed someone with deep pockets, and they did something that many would not have.

[JohnSSC]

Snrub, you are likely right, but, you are looking at it as if GF/KK just came up with the idea to make money this way. You are looking at it from the standpoint of "this far into it, how will they get their $$ back out?" I think that they are so deep into it, they are not sure when to cut their losses - they miscalculated the amount of time it would take to get the series solvent and into a revenue neutral position and then into a profit-making position.

Here is what I think:

CART goes belly-up. The Amigos sense an opportunity to snap up the assets on the cheap and then run things "their" way. They do things according to business norms and even have a "business plan." This plan includes utilization of a model that is essentially vertical integration. Own or control the promotion of races, the series, the teams (awarded as franchises), the engines and eventually the cars (generous lease terms now available). Problem: things are not going according to the plan.

These guys have made the classic mistake which is trying to apply the same methods one would use to manufacture widgets to manufacturing the end product of a racing sereies: racing. Not every idea or project conceived by even the most successful business types pans out over time.

Now you mention Penske. He does indeed show up at the races. He has a passion for racing no doubt. He did indeed make most of his fortune elsewhere. I think he (along with Ganassi and a few others) understand that they won't necessarily make a lot of money in the racing effort, but that the racing effort opens revenue opportunities up for them.

The Amigos, imho, thought they could turn a fortune into a bigger fortune by taking CART out of bankruptcy.

[indycool]

Agree, John. All the signs were there that this wasn't a very good idea from a financial perspective. GF had lost a lot of money on CART stock. KK's a venture capitalist. Gentilozzi just wanted to be a BMOC.

When Pook blew through $100 million in a season and had bankruptcy and nothing else coming out the other side, it should have been a warning sign. The sport, in order to be strong, needed a single series. That should have been another. The financial strength of the remaining teams was a sign.

It was kind of a "we're off to see the wizard" undertaking.

[mountainstar]

Is this a thread about the 2007 team and driver line up or the 2003 bankruptcy?

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Is this a thread about the 2007 team and driver line up or the 2003 bankruptcy?

It is, and I agree, Mountainstar.

Let's try to keep our posts germane to the thread topic, shall we?

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming

[JohnSSC]

Just a thought: The difficulties and challenges facing the 2007 season have deep roots. While I agree we do not need yet another chronicle of the events that got us here, the machinations (or lack thereof) by CC going in to the season just do not make for a good discussion without the context provide by recent history.

In fact, I would posit that some things are only making sense now, that happened some time ago. Trying to make sense of the situation on the ground almost requires that we pull back a bit and try to look at the whole picture.

Mods, I guess what I am asking for here is a bit of forebearance and allow the kittens to wander here a bit before you try to herd them! You have to admit it has been a rather good discussion...

I would, however, be deliriously happy to find out if Gommendy really was too tired to test as was suggested earlier...and fazzaz, were you just being tongue-in-cheek about Bourdais having a pucker factor over Gommendy being nearby?

[mountainstar]

I would say john this is a thread for discussing the 2007 team and driver line up, not machinations of champcar.

[JohnSSC]

I was unaware when I posted here last that a separate thread had been started, so fear not mountainstar, you need not have your sensibilitities assaulted by machination posts!

Cheers!

[Snrub]

Just out of curiousity, can anyone think of any other drivers who have had to stop driving due to exhaustion, particularly in testing?

[JohnSSC]

None come to mind, but that is not to say it hasn't happened.

I would suspect that this might have been more common years ago - before drivers got serious about physical training.

[fazzaz]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

...(snip) ... I would, however, be deliriously happy to find out if Gommendy really was too tired to test as was suggested earlier...and fazzaz, were you just being tongue-in-cheek about Bourdais having a pucker factor over Gommendy being nearby?

Why no, John, I was quite serious. I mean, suppose Gommendy fell asleep at the wheel while being lapped?

[Snrub]

Regarding the Grommady fitness issue. Think about the fat driver's that have participated in the series, PT, Michael Andretti, Al Jr., Nige. Then we have old drivers like Mario Andretti (53!) and Roberto Moreno. Heck Moreno did a lot the testing on the Panoz. ...And I forgot, Mario did practice sessions for Indy in 2004 as a senior citizen (recall the wild flips in the air?!?). Come to think of it Alex Zanardi can drive and we had Philippe in his first season. So let me check, we have children, the elderly, the obese, the disabled. Maybe PN will be willing to see how long he can go and set some kind of age record? Do I need to say any more?

[JohnSSC]

I see your point, fazzaz! I wonder if the team is putting an alarm feature in his helmet? Once they begin doing standing starts, they can rig it to make sure he is awake in time!

That is why Vasser didn't meet him sooner - they didn't want to wake him!

[Snrub]

Lol. We're going to be eating some serious crow if Grommady turns out to be good.

I can't remember, have we figured out where his $2.5M comes from?

[indycool]

No, I haven't, Snrub. Could be one of those deals like Bremer had money a couple years ago, 'cept it ran out. Don't see any sponsor announcements for the $2.5 million. Think a lot of the deals cut from now to Vegas may be race-to-race or thereabouts.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Snrub

Lol. We're going to be eating some serious crow if Grommady turns out to be good.

I can't remember, have we figured out where his $2.5M comes from?

Grommendy did win the macau gp which is not an easy race to win and did win races in WSbyR. His GP2 season was curtailed last year by a back injury at monaco. His fitness can be improved and he was probably caught out by how quick champcars are and the effort required to drive them to their max. I'm sure he's in the gym now.

[Mystery]

Except he didn't look any great shakes in GP2 either. Two 5th places out of 9 starts does not sound like a Bourdais in waiting to me.

Bet Adam Carroll wouldn't have been tired

[Mystery]

Jay Howard appears to be set to stay with the IPS/IRL side of the divide having signed for 3 races and possibly more with a new team. Granted his name hadn't been mentioned in connection with a CC ride in quite some time but was believed to be interested at some stage.

[Mystery]

Discussed on another thread but relevant here is that Minardi USA are to announce something today as per crash.net

[coyote9999]

I have just received a scoop. Andrew Ranger will be competing in the Canadian Series of Nascar thus leaving Champ Car for good. This is regreatable but he had an average season last year. The news should be announced this Thursday in Montreal.