General Sportscar Chat thread

[Beryl]

Winning Le Mans
Winning the WEC manufacturers/teams championship or endurance trophy
Winning ALL 6 hour WEC races
Winning the WEC drivers championship or endurance trophy
Winning 'majority' of 6 hour WEC races
Winning single 6 hour WEC race
Podium at Le Mans
Pole position at Le Mans
Top 5 final result at Le Mans
Podium at 6 hour WEC race
Top 10 (overall) final result at Le Mans
Finishing the race at Le Mans
Pole position at 6 hour WEC race
Fastest lap during Le Mans Test Day (irrelevant)
Fastest morning warm-up lap Le Mans (lol, really?)

[Deleted]

Actually the 'winning all 6 hour races' only implies winning those 7 and nothing else, that's why these things are separated from each other. It applies to all points here. You just need to pretend that's how it is, otherwise it starts going in circles.



Anyway of course you can put the 7 race wins on top if you feel like that's how the reality of popularity is.

[Beryl]

Ok, so DNFs all around in all non-stipulated finishes? I'll revise then.

[Deleted]

No worries, this was just intended as a bit of... fun? Is it fun? IDK. It's killing time at least

Gingers's comment on LM quali was quite interesting me thinks.

[Bob Baldwin]

1. Winning LM
2 Podium LM
3. Pole at LM
4. Winning all 6 Hour WEC races
5. Winning Majority of 6 hour WEC races
6. Winning WEC Drivers Championship
7. Winning WEC MFG / Teams Championship or Endurance Trophy .
8. Top 5 Final results at LM.
9. Podium at WEC 6 hour race .
10. Pole position at 6 hour WEC race
11. Top 10 final result at LM
12 Finishing the race at LM.
13. Fastest Lap at LM test Day .
14. Fastest morning warm-up lap at LM.

This from a Driver , Team owner and Sponsor perspective

[deggis]

Apparently here is what our favourite marketing person Andy Palmer has been up to lately:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119849

[joeb]

Originally Posted by deggis

Apparently here is what our favourite marketing person Andy Palmer has been up to lately:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119849

Ugggh don't even know what to say.....

[Deleted]

I've been trying to establish some sort of timeline on where the SRO and ACO relations got icky.

Great relations - 1990's
- Ratel saves Le Mans from falling into abyss by reassuring ACO to reintroduce GTs in 1993
- Ratel establishes BPR and soon majority of the Le Mans grid consists of his GT cars
- Ratel gets his own organized series to run at Le Mans as support act

Good relations - 2000's
- FIA GT Championship winners receive auto entries for Le Mans
- Le Mans grids still quite well supported by FIA GT teams
- Class structures and allowances between the two organizations remain the same, for the most part
- SRO helps IMSA-ACO to hold the shared ALMS-ELMS rounds in early 2000's, also FIA GT races on same weekends
- Ratel becomes shareholder of the new 2004 ELMS

Moderate to weaking relations - 2010
- SRO launches the FIA GT1 WC for cars dying out in ACO land, in ACO the class is retained for 2010 but the grids are crap despite promises, also the car techs are dumbened and become unsuitable for endurance
- ACO renames GT2 into GTE to make statement for the more sprint based GT1 cars, which they also decide to ban
- SRO kills off GT2 in 2010, starts prepping for war with it's own brainchild GT3 launched 5 years earlier, meaning that the two have nothing in common in class structures
- Ratel criticizes the GT classes at Le Mans being mere "third and fourth divisions" and not properly presented

Questionable to bad relations - 2011-Now
- No more SRO auto entries for Le Mans in 2011
- Ratel exists ELMS shareholder role
- ACO banning GT1 ultimately meant that the category become even more of a death trap and unsustainable in 2011 with SRO lonely soldiering on, and being the final nail to the coffin
- GTWC ultimately falls apart and Ratel has some talks of two world championships for sportscars not working out
- Ratel makes fun of ELMS 'micro-classes', unfashionable format, and GTE
- As FIA/ACO GTE and SRO invited GT3 are near identical and are clashing all the time, new regulations for unification are attempted but the meetings fall apart

Bottom line. The two parties do not work together anymore

[deggis]

Plus:
- ACO has an issue with GTE not being the undisputed number one GT class, and creates 2016 GTE

[Giba]

Good timeline there and forgot how long they had good relations for.

After reading about the article on Ratel on S365 where he mentions that the GT1 world championship suffered due to the creation of the WEC, it made me think if the GT1 world championship being in existence influenced the WEC in any way. All I could think was that the WEC might have been called the World sportscar championship instead as it would be the only sportscar world championship. They might have still called it WEC but personally I think WSC would have been a better name as it better describes what the championship is.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Giba

Good timeline there and forgot how long they had good relations for.

After reading about the article on Ratel on S365 where he mentions that the GT1 world championship suffered due to the creation of the WEC, it made me think if the GT1 world championship being in existence influenced the WEC in any way. All I could think was that the WEC might have been called the World sportscar championship instead as it would be the only sportscar world championship. They might have still called it WEC but personally I think WSC would have been a better name as it better describes what the championship is.

Altough ACO likes to stamp the E word everywhere, but sure that had to play a role as "GT Championship" and "Sportscar Chamionship" sound way too similar.

[Deleted]

It's even more ironic considering that when the WEC launched, the 2012 FIA GT1 World Championship wasn't even a world championship as it didn't fulfill FIA's continent criteria by any stretch of imagination, and also there were zero GT1 cars. So ACO could've argued about that to the FIA. But they probably didn't want to weaken the new relationship right and start. Also likely they didn't care.

I'm still waiting and hoping for that WSC renaming

[Deleted]

If you love Saleen, and have huge amounts of cash in your pocket, the time has come
http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2015/7/2...rcars-7728281/
http://gaauction.com/event/saleen-s7/

"All remaining inventory, parts, memorabilia, molds, designs and intellectual property" related to the Saleen S7, S7R and the S5S Raptor. They will also receive six chassis for the S7 / S7R as well as the S5S Raptor concept which debuted at the 2008 New York Auto Show."

But it's not directly connected to actual Saleen that's been sort of 'resurrected' lately, so it's not total doom and gloom

I don't know if any of the six S7s is actually S7R despite what it says though, it's vague in details.

[HJJ]

This may be off topic, but I could get excited if Telsa would build a GT3 Model S for PWC. I think the 50 minute format could work for a battery driven car.

Formula E doesn't do anything for me. But if you could race new technology against proper race cars and be competitive that would be interesting. However, I'm sure Elon Musk has enough on his plate to consider a pace program.

[YZFrider]

Originally Posted by HJJ

This may be off topic, but I could get excited if Telsa would build a GT3 Model S for PWC. I think the 50 minute format could work for a battery driven car.

That would be awesome. And it may not sound too far fetched. There have been several Teslas entered in the Pikes Peak electric class and Tesla has rented days here at Laguna Seca for testing. Hey you never know? ;-)

[joeb]

Originally Posted by HJJ

This may be off topic, but I could get excited if Telsa would build a GT3 Model S for PWC. I think the 50 minute format could work for a battery driven car.

Is it possible to be off topic in this thread? It would be great to see them attempt some racing. I wonder if PWC would allow them in with a GT3'esque car. The ACO doesn't seem very keen to allowing any type of hybrid into the GT classes, even if the road cars have it, but I don't know what they would think about a full electric running around.

[Deleted]

This IS the off topic thread

[deggis]

Ullrich is at the center of some controversy (DTM):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d08rS9wOeI

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120203
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120205

[joeb]

That was a sweet move, two for the price of one! I don't speak German but what I read it sounds like he did what he was told. Never the less, nobody could have thought that move would take out two cars. He hit straight from behind, it was purely luck that both cars were out off. To be clear, I think the Audi boys should be punished for intentionally shunting the Merc, but I'm impressed by the execution!

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by joeb

That was a sweet move, two for the price of one! I don't speak German but what I read it sounds like he did what he was told. Never the less, nobody could have thought that move would take out two cars. He hit straight from behind, it was purely luck that both cars were out off. To be clear, I think the Audi boys should be punished for intentionally shunting the Merc, but I'm impressed by the execution!

There was no point whatsoever in shunting Wickens (the car directly in front of Scheider), as he really isn't a factor in the overall championship battle. So if it was planned, the real target must have been Wehrlein.

What we don't know is when that message was sent... might have been in real time, but IMO it could also have gone out a bit earlier while Scheider was held up by Wickens and passed by Wehrlein.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

What we don't know is when that message was sent... might have been in real time, but IMO it could also have gone out a bit earlier while Scheider was held up by Wickens and passed by Wehrlein.

It would make sense if the call was given upon entry into turn 2 to try and lunge past Wickens before Wehrlein got to them, and the usual delay meant that it wasn't broadcast until just before Scheider plays bumper cars. I'd be very surprised if the commentary feeds got the in-car radio in real time.

However the move should still be punished, and Ulrich should know not to make those calls.

[Akrapovic]

It won't be real time radio, but it doesn't really matter - that was an awful move.

DTM seems to bring out some real bitterness between the makes.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

It won't be real time radio, but it doesn't really matter - that was an awful move.

DTM seems to bring out some real bitterness between the makes.

It actually does matter.
It is one of the highest regarded persons in motorsport crying out for foul play. It is something which make me reevaluate Dr. Ullrich's "divinity" in motorsport.
Remember that Dr. Ullrich has made hard remarks to drivers playing dirty before:
2011 Petit LM: Montagny won't drive for Dr Ulrich
The radio call from Dr. Ullrich properly wasn't in real time at first. But laid over later to match the time it was called.
Dr. Ullrich has expressed this himself, saying it was an unfiltered reaction to the moves the Mercedes drivers did.
From Audi Sport's facebook page:

Statement of Dr. Wolfgang Ullrich following the DTM weekend at Red Bull Ring: “That was obviously not a nice ending of an otherwise tremendous race. What was done with Timo was not the proper way to go about things. But it was most definitely not my intention that Robert (Wickens) and Pascal (Wehrlein) end up in the gravel trap. I’m sorry that I shouted, ‘Timo push him out’ in my initial emotion at the command post. I do not communicate with the drivers by radio during the race and did not know that the radio was open. This was not an instruction for Timo by any means. I can only apologize to Mercedes for this remark. An expression like that does not reflect my idea of motorsport, but was strictly due to the adrenaline at that moment. I’m a racer and was fuming about the way Timo was dealt with. It’s a shame that due to this incident a shadow has been cast on the impeccable performance delivered by Mattias and the entire Audi squad. Our Audi RS 5 DTM was the strongest car here, both in dry and wet conditions.”

https://www.facebook.com/AudiSport?fref=ts

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by CTD

The radio call from Dr. Ullrich properly wasn't in real time at first. But laid over later to match the time it was called.

I wonder about this. Not even F1 overlays radio calls to match when they were given so I'm not sure that DTM (or any series) would do so. But if I am wrong then please accept my apologies.

As for Dr. Ulrich, this wouldn't be the first time he's let his emotions overcome him when things aren't quite going his way. Remember LM 2010?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by J Jay

I wonder about this. Not even F1 overlays radio calls to match when they were given so I'm not sure that DTM (or any series) would do so. But if I am wrong then please accept my apologies.

As for Dr. Ulrich, this wouldn't be the first time he's let his emotions overcome him when things aren't quite going his way. Remember LM 2010?

Read the statement from Dr. Ullrich, he clearly states that the radio call was a reaction to the overtaking moves from the two Mercedes drivers.